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Eternix
03-07-02, 10:44 AM
This has been a great debate for quite some time, and in my soul, I fellowshipped with the Holy Spirit asking Him was this true and through the Word He gave me this answer.

THE BLOOD, THE WATER, THE SPIRIT

St. John 3:5- Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water (baptized) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

So we must be baptized in the water, let me stop and say something else before I continue,

1 John 5:8- For there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

First, before anything we must be cleansed and we are not cleansed by the Spirit to receive the blood or by the water, but first by the blood, for the Word says we are washed in the blood of the Lamb and we are washed whiter than snow, so it is the blood which must come first and in the asking Jesus to come into your life as Lord and Saviour, He answers by pouring the blood on you from heaven washing you from all your sins. You must be purified by the blood to even receive the Holy Ghost.

Jesus said we must be born of the water, that is to be baptized. We MUST be baptized in the water, Christ said the water first for a reason, because the water is next. The water buries you with Christ and in being baptized you are buried in his death and when you come up you come up in the newness of life the "old man" behind.

Now comes the FIRE (the Holy Ghost). The blood cleansed you, the water buried you, and now the Spirit is getting ready to sanctify you and Jesus is gonna baptize you with the Holy Ghost to seal you.

Matthew 3:11-...he (Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

There it is, the three have bore witness. You must be born of the water and of the Spirit.

Peter said in Acts 2:38- Repent (theres the Blood right there) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins(theres the water baptism), and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (theres the Spirit) AMEN? AMEN!


GROUND STATEMENTS

*YOU MUST BE BAPTIZED TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
*YOU MUST HAVE AND BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT. (Romans 8:9-...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

TONGUES ARE A GIFT OF THE SPIRIT

1 Corinthians 13:7- But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to ANOTHER the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9.To ANOTHER faith by the same Spirit; to ANOTHER the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10.To ANOTHER the working of miracles; to ANOTHER prophecy; to ANOTHER discerning of spirits; to ANOTHER DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; to ANOTHER interpretation of tongues;

11.But ALL these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, DIVIDING TO EVERY MAN SEVERALLY AS HE WILL.

Every one receive gifts as the Holy Spirit gives, all will NOT speak in tongues, it is a specific gift, just like all will not prophesy. Salvation is attained by the blood of Jesus and the receiving of the Holy Ghost, not by the gift of tongues. You pray and ask Jesus to come into your life and forgive you of all your sins, there is the blood right there and you receive the Holy Spirit at salvation sealing you til the day of redemption and the Spirit bear witness with our spirits that we are the children of God.

BOTTOM LINE

We saved by Jesus and His blood and by being baptized and by being born ofand receiving the Holy Spirit, no more, no less.

God Bless You all

Praise Father Son and Holy Ghost
Confess with your mouth and believe in your hearts

The Answer

I Corinthians 12:29- Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? The Holy Ghost says NO.


Eternix

:angel:

Ann
03-07-02, 11:15 AM
Born of water = natural birth, same word for water as is used when a mama's water breaks as a part of the birth process.

Born of the Spirit = spiritual birth, being "born again"

Baptism is not a mechanism for salvation it is something we should do because we are saved and want to outwardly demonstrate the inner work that has been done in us and to obey Christ.

We are saved by the blood of Jesus. His sacrifice is the one and only thing that God accepts.

Caretaker
03-07-02, 03:22 PM
Well said Ann, for by grace are ye saved by faith that not of yourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead thou shalt be saved, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. The thief on the cross, who gained entrance into paradise with Jesus, by his faith is our example. The lost soul, who upon their deathbed, comes to Christ with their last breath, gains eternal dwelling in the glorious Kingdom of God. All of those who receive Christ by faith, receive the indwelling presence of God's Holy Spirit, the precious Comforter, the indwelling presence of our glorious Lord.

I bear witness to the in-filling presence, a mighty fountain of the Glory of God, welling up inside and the evidence of speaking in tongues. I bear witness to having been healed through the prayers of the Saints, of a severe shoulder strain, where I could hardly move my left arm. As they laid hands on me and were praying, a feeling as of warm blanket settled upon my shoulders and I felt a movement in the muscles and ligaments in my shoulder. The pain was instantly gone with full movement instantly restored. Praise God for our blessed Savior is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Glory, and Honor, and Praises to the Lamb of God and the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, our God, our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ.

May God bless.

Lee
03-09-02, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by Ann
Born of water = natural birth, same word for water as is used when a mama's water breaks as a part of the birth process.

Born of the Spirit = spiritual birth, being "born again"

Baptism is not a mechanism for salvation it is something we should do because we are saved and want to outwardly demonstrate the inner work that has been done in us and to obey Christ.

We are saved by the blood of Jesus. His sacrifice is the one and only thing that God accepts.


Dear ann,
With all due respect, mechanism is defined as the steps that make up a process. I dont believe it would be wise for anyone to take away from the Word of this prophecy. The bible says he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. Peter said its not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the awnser of a good conscience toward God. Baptism is greatly misunderstood in these recent times and doing it without understanding what your doing is no different than taking a bath. Its not solely the water, it has nothing to do with an audience( philip and the eunich), it has nothing to do with a public profession, its not how you become a member of a church, its about being re-born and faith and undestanding are key elements to the process. Its the old man being barried in the water and the new man rising out of the water in the likeness of the ressurection with a brandnew slate or a clean conscience. There are only two ways of purification, one is water and the other is fire and this is the pattern of life, when the Lord got ready to destroy sin on the earth and preserve the righteousness he brought in the water with the floods, and the bible says when once the lonsuffering of God waited in the days of noah wherin few that is 8 souls were saved by water; the like-figure whereunto Baptism does also now save us!! The prophets of old understood the meaning of baptism and also recognized that it was part of the operation of salvation set forth in the name of Jesus Christ. I personally do not believe this takes away from the blood or the power of the sacrifice of the crucifiction but i do believe that its the part that God set forth to cleanse away the old man and bring forth the new. I almost did not respond to this because of all the debate surrounding it, but my conscience smote me and i thought about myself and how once i did not understand and the Lord blessed a brother to show me a more excellent way and i realized this is what the Gospel of the Lord is all about!

Peace and Love
Lee

Breni Sue
03-09-02, 01:33 AM
This reminds me of what the minister of a church I used to go to preached. What she more or less implied was that you were not a "true" Christian unless you spoke in tongues. If this is the case then I know a lot of people who are not Christians. ;)

Caretaker
03-09-02, 02:08 PM
We have no record of the apostles' being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3--note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them). The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), and the publican (Luke 18:13-14) also experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism.

The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter's message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (cf. v. 47).

For by grace are ye saved by faith that not of yourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast. It was by faith that the thief on the cross was saved.

Please note that in the case of Cornelius, his household, and near friends which were gathered, that the Holy Ghost fell upon them after hearing the Word, and they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God, prior to being baptised. Would the Holy Spirit dwell within that which was corrupt, because they had not yet been baptised? For what fellowship hath light with darkness. Romans 3:24-26 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Acts 10:
44
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



There are two ordinances of the church which we as believers are to follow. We are to be baptised, as an outward sign for the work of Justification which our Lord has done for us at the moment of conversion, for we are washed clean by the Blood of the Lamb of God, and we are to partake of the Lord's Table in remembrance of Him who is our passover, who died for all who call upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

cujo95
03-10-02, 12:00 AM
Are Tongues necesssary for salvation?

Absolutely not. Not now, or in the 1st century church.

The reason for this miraculous gift of tongues was to be able to communicate the gospel in known languages of the world at that time. A believer who spoke only Aramaic could have the gift of speaking, let's say, Latin or Greek or perhaps more languages.
Wherever someone spoke in tongues there was always someone there who understood and could interpret that language. It was always in a KNOWN tongue.

Tongues, like other miraculous gifts and healings, acted as a visible testimony and showing the fulfillment of OT prophesy. And acted as a testimony of the reality of Christ and His Church until their would eventually be the written testimony which we depend on- The New Testiment. (1 Cor 13:8-10)

Tongues, or other miraculous powers, or acts of love-such as good works, are all signs and characteristics of the Holy Spirit in us, but no way are necessary to save us.
A person receives the Holy Spirit and is saved unto eternal life the moment he believes the good news that the Lord Jesus Christ has saved him. Nothing more is required for a person to be saved unto eternal life: nothing less will do.
"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory." (Eph 1:13-14)