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Lee
02-16-02, 01:53 PM
Hello,
Do you guys think its o-k to watch shows like this, where the bare truth is that these people as awful as they may be presently have a soul like you and I. It would seem to me that any christian seeing such things should be weeping for the them, and not taking pleasure in these things at the expence of there neighbors soul. If anyone can set down in front of a show like this and recieve joy and pleasure, what do you think that says about them?

Lee

E-Nygma
02-16-02, 04:11 PM
Aren't "all things" lawful?

Multimom
02-16-02, 04:20 PM
Lets keep it in context:

"all things are lawful but not all things are profitable".


This definately falls into theh "not profitable" category.

Lee
02-16-02, 04:43 PM
E-nygma,
Thanks for your responce, there is a law to everything: including life and if we desire to live we must find the law and learn to love it, and this is what the Gospel is designed to do if we will let it. A brother in my church wrote a poem called the operation of God, this is how it begins: "Salvation is a life saving operation and the problem is with the heart, God almighty is the master surgeon and Jesus is the missing part". In Jesus is found the law of life and this law is not grevious, because of life, its like the law that says you must come to a complete stop at all red lights and when you realize it was designed to save you from being smashed your greatful for it, and i guess this is the place of knowledge where we all need to dwell 24- 7!

Peace and Love
Lee

svensky
02-16-02, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Lee
[B]Hello,
Do you guys think its o-k to watch shows like this, where the bare truth is that these people as awful as they may be presently have a soul like you and I. It would seem to me that any christian seeing such things should be weeping for the them, and not taking pleasure in these things at the expence of there neighbors soul. If anyone can set down in front of a show like this and recieve joy and pleasure, what do you think that says about them?

No I dont really think it is profitable to watch things like this. Which is why I dont really bother too.

Jason

E-Nygma
02-17-02, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by Multimom
Lets keep it in context:

"all things are lawful but not all things are profitable".


This definately falls into theh "not profitable" category.

But it still is lawful.

Breni Sue
02-18-02, 01:11 PM
So is smoking *****ettes, but they are still bad for your health.

I think that with things such as this, we need to take a lot more into consideration other than whether it is lawful or not. Like whether it is good for our physical, mental or spiritual health. Stating solely "Because it is legal" is simply not enough. "Does this glorify God?" "Is this promoting a positive message?" "Will this improve my spiritual/mental/physical well-being?" I think that it is very important to keep all these in minds as well when deciding whether something is "OK" for us to do.

Pelvidar
02-18-02, 01:39 PM
I think the point he's trying to make, is not whether it's "smart" to do something, but that the law does not prohibit it. And since it is the laws of God that Christians often turn to as a final authority, then this verse implies that there is nothing unlawful to do.

I'm sure he would agree that there are things which are unhealthy for you. But I think he's referring to aspect of God's judgement on the "right/wrong" of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong E-Nygma. Don't mean to put words in your mouth that you don't intend.

Pel.

selah
02-18-02, 02:15 PM
Hey Lee--

This comment caught my attention: "If anyone can set down in front of a show like this and recieve joy and pleasure, what do you think that says about them?"

Wouldn't we be judging people to answer that question? To me, the people who take joys in these fake, overdramatized shows are really not doing anything different than someone who turns an open ear to gossip. I don't think people who enjoy these shows are any "worse" than the "rest of us".

I know that's off the topic, but I just think we should be careful about making character judgements about people ... one thing that causes me to cringe more than most other things is when peole set people up into categories of either "those that do" or "those that don't". They then identify which group is better and if they belong to that group, they take pleasure in knowing they are "better". I'm not accusing you of doing that, I just see it happening all too often in churches so I'm very sensitive to comments like that.

Lee
02-18-02, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by kipepeo
Hey Lee--

This comment caught my attention: "If anyone can set down in front of a show like this and recieve joy and pleasure, what do you think that says about them?"

Wouldn't we be judging people to answer that question? To me, the people who take joys in these fake, overdramatized shows are really not doing anything different than someone who turns an open ear to gossip. I don't think people who enjoy these shows are any "worse" than the "rest of us".

I know that's off the topic, but I just think we should be careful about making character judgements about people ... one thing that causes me to cringe more than most other things is when peole set people up into categories of either "those that do" or "those that don't". They then identify which group is better and if they belong to that group, they take pleasure in knowing they are "better". I'm not accusing you of doing that, I just see it happening all too often in churches so I'm very sensitive to comments like that.

Hello,
Thanks for sharing your views, although its getting a little off the topic here, and im afraid you be may mis-understand my intentions. I simply was posting a question to promote thought on a subject that I feel would be good for us, who have Godly desires to ponder on. We as christians from day to day must judge how we live, and whether or not certain things will promote spiritual growth or not. The flesh is against the spirit and the spirit is against the flesh and in this there is a battle and in order to have victory we will have to go with the spirit. I cant speak for anyone else but when i begin to do something that is against the spirit, my soul cries out and says: What about me? And ultimately the soul will prevail, no matter whether you feed it or starve it, it belongs to you and I cant tell you whats wrong or write for your soul but I can post a question to hopefuly abound to the edification for all saints!

Peace and Love
Lee

Breni Sue
02-19-02, 01:21 AM
I got what E-Nygma was saying. I was merely pointing out that just because something is "lawful" does not necessarily make it "right".

selah
02-19-02, 01:44 AM
Hey Lee, thanks for the clarification :) I think we're in agreement!

God bless

E-Nygma
02-19-02, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Kyrie Eleison
I got what E-Nygma was saying. I was merely pointing out that just because something is "lawful" does not necessarily make it "right".

Does it being lawful make it wrong? Why would it then be lawful? That would be implying that God allows us to do wrong. Not only allows, but by implication, sanctions it.

Multimom
02-19-02, 05:59 PM
Lets quickly clear this up. I was also in error regarding the context of this reference.

Titus 3:7-9

Having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying and I want you to stress these things so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because they are are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once and then warn him a second time, After that have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful.

1. We have been justified by his grace and are heirs. This can be trusted.

2. Stress this justification to those who trust God so that they will do what is good.

3. Stressing justification is good and profitable for everyone.

4. Avoid foolish arguements about the law, genealogies and the law.

5. Arguing about these (gennealogies and the law) is foolish and unprofitable.

6. Warn someone who argues about these things once and then again twice if necessary.

7. If they don't heed the warning, avoid them because they are "warped and sinful"

Somehow, this falls a long way from "all things are lawful"

Lee
02-19-02, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by E-Nygma


Does it being lawful make it wrong? Why would it then be lawful? That would be implying that God allows us to do wrong. Not only allows, but by implication, sanctions it.

E-nygma,
The word of God must be rightfuly devided, if you follow after the spirit you shall live but if you live after the flesh you shall surely die. The letter killeth, it is the spirit that giveth life and what we have to give account to is what the spirit is speaking to us and what our conscience is either accusing or excusing us in concerning how we live. If someone desires to be justified in un-righteousness, there is a scripture in the bible that will due just that. God grants us according to our heart, and in reality this is the only ability we have is to train our heart of what is wrong and what is right by either repenting and forsaking or hardening our heart and sweeping sin underneath the rug.

Peace and Love
Lee

E-Nygma
02-19-02, 10:52 PM
I don't know. It just may be me, but why is it when people use the spirit/letter separation, it usually means, regardless of how subtle, that the one claiming to be using the spirit believes themselves to be right. While their usage of the letter often means that the other is wrong.

Walk by the Spirit---I'm right

The letter killeth---You're wrong

Or in other words; I'm walking by the Spirit, so that means I'm right. And you're using the letter of the law, which means you're wrong.

Just an observation.

Breni Sue
02-20-02, 12:15 AM
Does it being lawful make it wrong? Why would it then be lawful? That would be implying that God allows us to do wrong. Not only allows, but by implication, sanctions it. Let's look at this verse again:

1Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things edify

Now, some folks may try to twist this around to argue that everything is lawful. But in reality, we all know that is not true. Is it lawful to murder? To steal? No, of course not. God's Word even says that these things are wrong. Is this a contradiction then? No. What this verse seems to saying is - just because something may be made "legal", that does not always mean it is the best thing for us (*****rettes for example)
Example: Adult pornography is legal in the US. But, does this glorify God? Is it bringing us closer in our walk with Him? Is this something that He would approve for us to do or even watch? I don't believe so.

Pelvidar
02-20-02, 07:39 AM
Kyrie: "Now, some folks may try to twist this around to argue that everything is lawful. But in reality, we all know that is not true. Is it lawful to murder? To steal? No, of course not. God's Word even says that these things are wrong. Is this a contradiction then? No."

I'd still say it's a contradiction. If someone reads that passage and says: "Hey this verse says everything is lawful" - then how is that "twisting the words up"? Afterall, that's "exactly" what it says. In fact, in that once verse it says it twice.

One might say that someone suggesting that all things "aren't" lawful is the one twisting up the verse, since it clearly doesn't say that, in that verse.

You affirm the contradiction yourself actually :) You say "we know that's not true". And that is what a contradiction is, right? Now we can try to "infer" that the writer might have meant something else... but it doesn't change what the writer said.

Know what I mean?

E-Nygma
02-20-02, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Kyrie Eleison
Let's look at this verse again:

1Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things edify

Now, some folks may try to twist this around to argue that everything is lawful. But in reality, we all know that is not true. Is it lawful to murder? To steal? No, of course not. God's Word even says that these things are wrong. Is this a contradiction then? No. What this verse seems to saying is - just because something may be made "legal", that does not always mean it is the best thing for us (*****rettes for example)
Example: Adult pornography is legal in the US. But, does this glorify God? Is it bringing us closer in our walk with Him? Is this something that He would approve for us to do or even watch? I don't believe so.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I see nowhere in the verse you use that connotates anything in a right, or wrong context. I see the word helpful. I see the word edify, but I don't see anything that says anything about right, or wrong.

lostsoul
02-20-02, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by E-Nygma


Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I see nowhere in the verse you use that connotates anything in a right, or wrong context. I see the word helpful. I see the word edify, but I don't see anything that says anything about right, or wrong.

I have to agree with you. So, how does this relate to Springer?

Breni Sue
02-21-02, 12:45 AM
OK, clarfication time.

My question remains though - do you believe that God approves of pornography, even though it is legal? What about smoking? Can anyone here honestly say that He sees these things as being beneficial for us? We have practically every doctor out there encouraging us not to smoke because it is bad for our health. That alone tells me that although something may be legal, that doesn't always mean it is the best thing for us. What I am trying to get across here is - as I stated earlier - that we need to take a lot more into consideration before we partake in certain things. Watching a show (or doing anything, for that matter) simply because "it is legal" is IMO not a very good reason to be doing it. It is up to us to use common sense when deciding what is going to be most beneficial for us. Does that make sense? :)

And Pel, you are talking to someone who believes that the bible has no contradictions. But that is another thread for another time. ;)

selah
02-21-02, 01:07 AM
Hey Kyrie,

Let me offer my perspective on this issue. I agree with you that God probably does not think we should smoke, watch Jerry Springer, and do other things that can be detrimental to our health.

(I'll use smoking as an example). I don't read this verse and say, "oooh, goodie, everything is lawful so I'm gonna go smoke". What I take from this verse is that I don't have the right to judge a brother or sister as being in sin for smoking, or try to force my opinion on them about whether or not they should smoke. I may gently encourage a loved one to shake the habit (which I do actually with several good friends). But I wouldn't try to tell them they are sinning or breaking God's Law by doing it. They may be disappointing God by harming themselves, but that is between them and God to decide. What I take from this verse is that issues such as smoking, watching less-than-edifying movies, etc. are an issue between me and God, and for you they're between Kyrie and God, etc. What do you think?

Peace
Kathryn

E-Nygma
02-21-02, 02:09 AM
The verse simply states that something is, or is not helpful, or edifying. It doesn't step over the line to say if something is good, or bad. Just because something is not edifying, does not automatically connotate bad. Just as it does not connotate good.
Using this verse does not imply anything as being good, or bad, just helpful, or edifying.

You seem to be placing every action in a good/bad light. But you forget that some actions and behaviors are neutral when it comes to scripture and salvation.

I see you using *****ettes as an example. Why not use the accepted church sin of gluttony as the example? More church members are overweight than smoke.

Breni Sue
02-21-02, 02:14 AM
The verse simply states that something is, or is not helpful, or edifying. It doesn't step over the line to say if something is good, or bad. Just because something is not edifying, does not automatically connotate bad. Just as it does not connotate good.
Using this verse does not imply anything as being good, or bad, just helpful, or edifying.Exactly. Didn't I just say that though?I see you using *****ettes as an example. Why not use the accepted church sin of gluttony as the example? More church members are overweight than smoke.No church I know of accepts gluttony anymore than they do smoking. But my point still stands.

bumpas
02-21-02, 09:36 AM
What ever happened to just turning to an other cannel???

E-Nygma
02-21-02, 10:54 AM
Actually, KYRIE,
You did say that smoking was bad.
AND you did attempt to use the verse to back up your view.

Whereas, I do agree with you that smoking is bad for you, it is not this verse that places it in the "bad" catagory.

As for the sin of gluttony...
If I were in the midst of adultry, my church would confront me and my sin. If I practiced drunkeness, again, I would be confronted. If I used drugs, the same. BUT, if I started putting on alot of weight, it would be considered just being overweight, not a sin.


BUT that is a topic for another thread.

Breni Sue
02-21-02, 02:12 PM
I used the verse to back up the argument about things being "lawful" but not always "beneficial", I explained that. I think this verse actually does fit in with the situation rather well if you think about it.

Will discuss this later, must be going. :)