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Lee
02-14-02, 12:30 AM
Peace,
The bible says that every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.
What do you guys hear in this scripture and what are your views?

Lee

svensky
02-14-02, 12:48 AM
The bible says that every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.
What do you guys hear in this scripture and what are your views?
I've always been under the impression that what is meant is that sexual sin can be especially damaging beyond simply the act itself. Think STD's, broken relationships etc,

Jason

Caretaker
02-14-02, 08:41 AM
Genesis 2:

22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he
a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my
flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of
Man.
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall
cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

"And they shall become one flesh", is the way that God established marriage, to be pure and unsullied. Adultry and fornication defile the body, bringing each sexual experience to the marriage bed, having become one flesh with a whole series of others.

I do not think it is by accident that our Lord referred to the Church as the Bride of Christ, as His Body, for when we receive Christ we become one with Him, and when we defile our Body we sin against our precious Lord.

Multimom
02-14-02, 10:08 AM
For the believer who commits fornication or for the unbeliever, there is often enormous guilt, which often extends way beyond the incident itself. Many harbor guilt feelings for years. Some eventually harden themselves against that guilt and continue in that sin as though they are "free to do as they wished."

The sin against self is one that brings much pain. A dear youth pastor friend of ours often told our kids, "I didn't get saved until I was 20 years old, and before that I had many sexual partners among my girlfriends. I met my wife after I was saved and on our wedding night she confided to me, "I have saved myself all my life just for you." I was crushed that I could not say the same to her.

He never once told that story without crying. His pain was genuine even 15 years after the fact.

I think many times God gives us mandates not just to give us mandates but as any loving parent to protect us from the pain of the mistake.

That is my take on this verse.

God knows better than I do what will hurt me and since He is my father I need to trust his judgement.

bumpas
02-17-02, 08:01 AM
I believe it means that sex is still the most fun that you can have with out laughing,in or out of marriage.

Multimom
02-18-02, 09:51 AM
I believe it means that sex is still the most fun that you can have with out laughing,in or out of marriage.


Careful Bumpas this is bordering on a violation of the terms of use. It could be construed as an advocation of extra-marrital sex.

svensky
02-18-02, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by bumpas
I believe it means that sex is still the most fun that you can have with out laughing,in or out of marriage.

And you are how old ?

Jason

Breni Sue
02-19-02, 02:27 AM
Hey svensky!

While bumpas may have violated the rules with his comment, I feel that yours comes close to that as well. It can be interpretted as "baiting" or an "ad hominem". Just wanted you to let you know. :)

svensky
02-19-02, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Kyrie Eleison
Hey svensky!

While bumpas may have violated the rules with his comment, I feel that yours comes close to that as well. It can be interpretted as "baiting" or an "ad hominem". Just wanted you to let you know. :)

Fair enough. It was intended as such ? I was actaully kind of curious.

Jason

bumpas
02-19-02, 07:01 AM
I was born to be a man,i chose to post on this forum.

Tomorrow i will still be a man but i may choose to post elsewear.

inri
02-19-02, 11:27 AM
I think there is nothing wrong with sex as long as you love the person regardless of the situation. If you live with a woman for over 2 years but are never married and choose to have sex at that time, is it wrong? Depends on where you live. Some places constituate that as a marraige, albiet 'Common Law' but marraige nonetheless.

But again, I think it's okay as long as you are in love.

Also bumpas, you mispelled waving. Might want to check the spelling. :D

Multimom
02-19-02, 05:45 PM
Inri:

That is a common philosophy, however, the Bible tells us to keep the "marriage bed" undefiled and that sex outside of marriage is not acceptable.

Now as for commonlaw marriages, in many states it is just as difficult to dissolve a common-law marriage as it is a documented one. So if a man and woman declare to all they see that they are indeed marriage then we have no way to deem otherwise. The main problem with common law is that until such time as it is declared common law, it is not a marriage and therefore not an acceptable situation to God.

svensky
02-19-02, 06:52 PM
But again, I think it's okay as long as you are in love.
What happens when they dont love each other anymore ?

The reason (I believe) sex is to wait for marriage is that having sex with another person forms bonds with that person that aren't meant to come apart.

Sex is designed for one partner for life.

How much suffering and heart ache is casued in the world becasue people disregard this idea, and just have sex all over the place ?

Jason

trixiepup
02-19-02, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by svensky

How much suffering and heart ache is casued in the world becasue people disregard this idea, and just have sex all over the place ?

heehee.

it really depends on who you are speaking with. those that choose to live together and have the sexual relationship without being married act just like marrieds anyway. both marrieds and ******* living together have the same fights and disagreements over money and household chores and what have you.

and those that just sleep around generally enjoy their behavior at the time too. granted, it may not be the best way to establish a long term relationship, but a lot of women i know don't want to deal with men on a long term basis. it may have happened because of bad luck, but it's how they feel comfortable.

the one thing i don't understand is why weddings are a big deal. the entire wedding ceremony is just a socially constructed symbol of tranferring property from one family to another. i don't see why a common law marriage is inferior to a church wedding. i have no problem with people doing unity ceremonies instead of church weddings....they seem to serve the same purpose to me.

and i honestly don't think god sees a couple as living in sin for 2 years 364 days, but on the 365th day the marriage is now holy because it is officially a common law marriage. i think it's the intentions of the couple and the dedication behind their actions. i think if a couple is committed to one another in heart, soul, and body then they are married to eachother whether they've had the church ceremony or not. it's how i view homosexual marriage, but that is a whole other can of worms that i'm not opening today.

svensky
02-19-02, 09:50 PM
it really depends on who you are speaking with. those that choose to live together and have the sexual relationship without being married act just like marrieds anyway. both marrieds and ******* living together have the same fights and disagreements over money and household chores and what have you.

Yes but interestingly, defacto relationships have more problems that marraiges, from a violence and abuse perspective. Also they split up more commonly, becasue they lack the feel of permanance a marriage has. Not in all cases, but often.

and those that just sleep around generally enjoy their behavior at the time too. granted, it may not be the best way to establish a long term relationship, but a lot of women i know don't want to deal with men on a long term basis.
Just like guys ? The saddest part is they sell everything so short of its full potential.

the one thing i don't understand is why weddings are a big deal. the entire wedding ceremony is just a socially constructed symbol of tranferring property from one family to another. i don't see why a common law marriage is inferior to a church wedding. i have no problem with people doing unity ceremonies instead of church weddings....they seem to serve the same purpose to me.
They do. I dont think anybody but christians should get married in a church with a minister etc.

Its not that a common law marriage is inferior, but in general thse defacto marriages tend to have many more problems that regular marriages.

i think it's the intentions of the couple and the dedication behind their actions. i think if a couple is committed to one another in heart, soul, and body then they are married to eachother whether they've had the church ceremony or not.
True enough, but if they are so loving and commited to one another, you dont need a ceremony or rings or anything else. you can just pop down to the registry office and fill in a couple of form and bing your married. Why dont they do this ? Its not hard, it's completely secular, yet they dont ?

Jason

trixiepup
02-19-02, 09:58 PM
a couple reasons i can think of off hand...taxes and being married going into a higher tax bracket, feeling that marriage would compromise their individual, free sprited nature, not wanting to deal with the paperwork and bloodtests as well as change of name forms, believing that marriage will end in divorce just like parents marriages, wanting the freedom to leave the relationship without having to go through divorce paperwork, etc.

Breni Sue
02-20-02, 03:02 AM
Hmm, we never had to get a blood test when we got married. :confused:

I feel that these people focus way too much on the negative and not enough on all the benefits of marriage. Sure, you have to go through a lot of paperwork, but if you love that person, then isn't it worth it? Trust me, it really is not as much of a hassle as some folks make it out to be! :) And just because you get married does not mean that you have to totally give up your individuality. Compromise perhaps, but aren't relationships all about compromising? It is a "give and take" deal. You have to be willing to sacrifice certain things for the sake of the other person.believing that marriage will end in divorce just like parents marriages, wanting the freedom to leave the relationship without having to go through divorce paperwork, etc.But if they are already thinking this way beforehand, then doesn't that show that maybe they are not really that commited to each other? Speaking for myself here, I personally did not go into my marriage with the mentality that I would have to go through tons of red tape should I choose to leave. Because I don't intend on leaving. Ever. When I gave my vows, I meant every word - till death do us part. And I think that way too many people aren't looking for that anymore. They don't want a life-long commitment, they want a relationship that they can easily get out of should things get rough. That IMO is not love, and not what God intended as far as relationships. Marriage is about staying together and working through those rough times.

One more thing:and those that just sleep around generally enjoy their behavior at the time too. But how are they going to feel later on down the road? What if they contract some kind of disease? What if that disease prevents them from being with someone that they really love? I know a woman right now who got HIV when she was 17 because she slept around. Now she will never be able to have children because of the risk of passing her disease on to them. Her life has been ruined because of this. How many more lives have been ruined because they chose to sleep around? A lot of the people I have talked to who used to engage in this lifestyle say that they regret it, and some even admit that they were never really happy. Sex was never meant to be regarded or abused in this manner. God created these laws to save us from this kind of heartache.

svensky
02-20-02, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by trixiepup
a couple reasons i can think of off hand...taxes and being married going into a higher tax bracket, feeling that marriage would compromise their individual, free sprited nature, not wanting to deal with the paperwork and bloodtests as well as change of name forms, believing that marriage will end in divorce just like parents marriages, wanting the freedom to leave the relationship without having to go through divorce paperwork, etc.
Notice how many of these reasons you list amount to, I'm not really willing to commit to this ?

Also, being married is normally a tax break not a tax hike.

Jason

bumpas
02-20-02, 11:50 AM
I am so old that i can remember when a curser was someone who walked around swearing all of the time.

(inappropriate comment deleted by moderator)

How old are you,i probably have a neck tie older than you.

svensky
02-20-02, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by bumpas
I am so old that i can remember when a curser was someone who walked around swearing all of the time.

(inappropriate comment deleted by moderator)

How old are you,i probably have a neck tie older than you.

27, your comment was reminicent of things i've heard over sexed 16 year olds say.

Jason

bumpas
02-20-02, 05:03 PM
I was born to be a man and i chose to post on this forum.

Tomorrow i will still be a man,but i may chose to post elseweare.

trixiepup
02-21-02, 04:54 PM
i don't think masculinity depends upon having sexual intercourse. of course, that is the image that the media loves to portray. it's always the handsome 40 year old guy that ends up having sex with a costar significantly younger (because old men are handsome while old women are just old; not that 40 is old...).

i think the ability to refrain from having sex takes a lot more strength and integrity than going out and having sex with a classmate or someone you meet on a date simply because inserting tab a into slot b makes a man.

HeatherlyButterfly
02-26-02, 05:44 AM
paul said something very similar. remain in the single and celibate life, but if you cannot to marry in order not to be sinning. i think that it's a valid point and a good idea. please God, not yourself. however if it is too hard to refrain, to marry. not that i'm condoning going out and marrying the first attractive member of the opposite sex who wants to get you in bed... but there is a valid point to paul's argument.

svensky
02-26-02, 04:10 PM
i think the ability to refrain from having sex takes a lot more strength and integrity than going out and having sex with a classmate or someone you meet on a date simply because inserting tab a into slot b makes a man. [/B]
It doesn't :excuse: Hollywood has lied to me all these years.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:D

Jason

bumpas
02-26-02, 04:45 PM
Refraining from sex is an un naturol act with consequences

trixiepup
02-26-02, 05:35 PM
i think ignoring your sexuality is what causes problem. if someone chooses to not have sex, but still acknowledges that they are a sexual being, i don't think there will be any major problems that are lasting.

bumpas noted that it is unnatural to refrain from sex because it has consequences. however, it is also important to note that having sex carries with it a whole other set of consequences. sexuality and the decision to have sex are not in this independent vacuum where only one decision is correct, and only the wrong choice has consequences. sex isn't a binary issue.

Breni Sue
02-27-02, 02:40 AM
I agree with you to a certain extent. However, no one has ever contracted a disease and died because they abstained from sex. I think there definitely are worse consequences from having sex than there are from abstinence. And it most certainly is not an unnatural thing. God may have have gave us these bodies and these "feelings". But He also gave us brains and common sense. Not to mention His Word, which tells us that there is a proper time and place for such things. He never intended sex to be used "freely" whenever and with whomever we choose.

In any case, I think we have strayed a bit from the topic here though. I will re-post Lee's original question for reference:The bible says that every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.
What do you guys hear in this scripture and what are your views?

Carry on... :)

svensky
02-27-02, 06:25 AM
Originally posted by bumpas
Refraining from sex is an un naturol act with consequences
Bumpas, at the risk of getting myself warned,

Are you the poster boy for our whole cultures approach to sexuality ?:confused:

Every comment you make is just so completly in line with every lie our culture tells about sex and its role.

Jason

bumpas
02-27-02, 07:35 AM
(Jason,)

Sex is life's driving force,you ca pass laws against marriage against religian and inforse them.

You can pass laws against sex and you will never be able to inforse them,for sex is the essence of life.

P.S. It's still the most fun you can have with out laughing.

Multimom
02-27-02, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Trixipup wanting the freedom to leave the relationship without having to go through divorce paperwork

Just a heads up, many states don't require blood tests, Texas doesn't and neither do many others.

Also, in many states, it is just as difficult to disolve a common law marriage as it is a "certified" marriage.

Property division and child custody are still governed by the courts, legally married or not. The is a statute on the books in Texas regarding the desolution of "common law marriage."

Now, let me say this, I'm old (40) I'm married (10 years), I have children (6 of them), and obviously I've had my share of sex, but I cannont and I will not ever encourage others to participate in such activity outside of marriage.

Secular reasons:
1. Sexually transmitted diseases (some incurable and some terminal)
2. Unwanted and then later un-parented children.
3. Potential for long term life distroying effects
(women with multiple partners have a much greater risk of cancer of the reproductive organs)
4. Emotional hurt from "unfinished business"

Faith reasons:
1. God forbids it.

My biggest advocate is the one under faith reasons.

bumpas
02-27-02, 10:03 AM
This makes strike 3 for you, Bumpas. This comment was very inappropriate.