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Lee
01-25-02, 07:49 PM
Hello,
Do you guy's think Jesus would play sport's? To futher the question, do you think that men striving to excel over each other would be considered emulation?

Nicole
01-25-02, 08:18 PM
Your first question reminds me of something I read in one of Max Lucado's books once. Remember the time Jesus went to the wedding? The same one where he turned the water into wine. Well, Lucado points out that a possible reason he could have gone, was just to have fun - fellowship - sit and talk with the people. Lucado points out that He didn't go to perform a miracle, at least that wasn't his only purpose. When his mother approached him about the wine problem, he said, "women, why do are you bothering me?" If I remember correctly, I think the passage even says He went because He was invited. The simple fact that He was invited would seem to say that He was a likeable guy who had made friends and such. This was before his ministry started, so it's not like he was famous or anything yet. He was just the son of a carpenter. So, yes, I think Jesus would play sports. I think he would go over to a friends house and sit and watch a game with him. I don't think Jesus has anything having fun. He is the God of Joy afterall.


Next question: first of all, I had to look up emulation, :) and for the benefit of everyone else I'm going to post the definition here:

em·u·la·tion n. 1. Effort or ambition to equal or surpass another. 2. Imitation of another. 3. Computer Science. The process or technique of emulating. 4. Obsolete. Jealous rivalry.


I don't really know the hearts of the people playing. It's true that for some of them the desire to win controls their lives I'm sure. Although, I'm pretty sure for others they enjoy the game, and part of enjoying the game is trying to win.

Lee
01-25-02, 11:04 PM
Hello,
Now why do you believe the bible would classify emulation as a sin that would keep an individual from entering the kingdom of heaven Galations 5-20?

Nicole
01-26-02, 07:56 PM
Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


I assume you are talking about the word "jealousy" there. Now, as to why the Bible would classify that as a sin that would keep an indivdual from entering heaven - the answer is given in the previous verse - it's a product of the flesh. I don't see this as something that is present at all times in all sports situations. It is possible for people to enjoy playing a sports game with people without jealousy, strife, etc. It's the heart of the person - it's their attitudes and actions. I don't think playing sports automatically means that you are jealous of someone.

Now, I'll ask you a question - Do you think playing sports is a sin?

Breni Sue
01-26-02, 08:18 PM
Hey guys!

I split this from Flannel's thread because we seemed be getting away from the original topic. So far, this discussion appears to be doing fine. However, if this begins to become more of a debate I may move it into ODD once it is reopened.

Thanks :)

Lee
01-26-02, 11:26 PM
H.P,
Not exactly sure what version of the bible that is, but it is a shame the degree they went to to dillute that scripture, This is the KJV:Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness,
Idolotry, withcraft, hatred ,variance,emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,envyings, murders, drunkiness,revellings, and such like : of the which i tell you before, as i have also told you in times past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As i read the scriptures i try to find the life in them, in other words when the bible tells us not to envy our neighbor, i dont just stop with the face value i seek the lords undestanding for why we should not do this, and by doing this the commandments become my road-map to eternal life and i realize that they are for me and not against me. I have heard many people speak bad about the word jealousy, i personally see nothing wrong with it. God said that he was a jealous God, I'm married and im sure if a man was coming on to my wife the spirit of jealousy would come on me and it's perfectly normal, she's my wife!!!!!!!! Where the problem comes in is how you react to your feeling's, and that has nothing to do with the feeling itself.

If it's OK with you i will awnser your second question later, for i believe it would be more edifying to hear your view's first. You wrote earlier of Jesus being a very likeable guy, and i must agree he was loved by his own, but the people who put him on the cross were the most religious of that time and the reason they killed him was because most all did not like him. When i see the life of christ i see a man of sorrow's ,who knew much grief i see a life of suffering and sacrifice, the bible said he did not even have a place to lay his head.

Kyrie posted warning us of a debate, if we as christians can't share with each other the knowledge that God is sharing with us, and if we are not going to use this board to do that , We may as well log off! Isaiah said: let us come togther and reason with the scriptures. I hope that the lord will bless me not to sound like im trying to debate, that is definitely not my purpose. God has many member's in the body and the eye can't say i have no need of the hand's, and i know as much as i may have to share with others, you guy's have more to share with me.

When i think on scripture's in the gospel book's after Jesus came on the seen, The entire ministry is teaching us how to obtain the of God for all. Love your neighbor, Love your enemy, bless them that curse you, overcome evil with good, pray for those who mis-use you and when i see people punching each other in a ring, and people with pad's on hitting each other with with full force, fighting over ball's and bats favorite team's and waging money on it and fighting over that to and father's of the kid's who are playing killing each other and i could go on and on but i dont think it's neccesary! Im sorry, but i cannot see the Lord( The King of Peace) having any part with that! When the lord showed me what emulation meant, i wanted to know why, and he showed me, and it's not limited to only sports. Life is the subject, it's much bigger than all this stuff going on in the world.

Peace and Love
Lee

Nicole
01-27-02, 12:16 AM
The verse I posted was from the NASB - which, from what I've heard is actually more accurate of a translation than the KJV. I looked up the original greek for that word anyway - and this is what it said:

dzay'-los: envy, fervent mind, indignation, jealousy

from: dzeh'-o: to be hot, fervent

so, it looks like both interpretations are correct :)


I agree with you that we should look at the meaning behind scriptures and apply them to our life and allow that to be our guide along with the Holy Spirit. I must admit that the use of "jealousy" in the Bible has confused me before. God says he is a jealous God, yet often times jeaolusy is condemned. I think you explained it well - just as you would be jealous if someone came onto your wife - God is jealous when someone tries to steal away his bride, the church. 2 Corinthians 11:2 actually says a "godly jealousy." You said, "Where the problem comes in is how you react to your feeling's, and that has nothing to do with the feeling itself. " yup - I agree :)


I'm gonna come back and try to answer the rest of your post later - It's getting late and I'm talking to a good friend - hard to look up scripture stuff and talk at the same time :)


Kyrie - if we step over the line, let us know! I'm enjoying this conversation though - sometimes I feel like I get in over my head, but I really do like to be challenged to look up stuff and see why I believe things!

Breni Sue
01-27-02, 12:22 AM
Kyrie posted warning us of a debate, if we as christians can't share with each other the knowledge that God is sharing with us, and if we are not going to use this board to do that , We may as well log off! Isaiah said: let us come togther and reason with the scriptures. I hope that the lord will bless me not to sound like im trying to debate, that is definitely not my purpose. God has many member's in the body and the eye can't say i have no need of the hand's, and i know as much as i may have to share with others, you guy's have more to share with me. Lee, I am sorry if I offended you, it really was not my intention to keep you from discussing this. Like I said, the disscusion is going fine so far. But I see the potential of this possibly becoming a debate, and just wanted to bring to it people's attention before it does. Sharing=encouraged. Debate=not. :) You are cool.

Carry on...

VG8XP80
01-28-02, 01:42 AM
There's a difference between an enemy and an opponent.

Lee
01-28-02, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by VG8XP80
There's a difference between an enemy and an opponent.



VG8,
I believe that the reason behind all scripture, is to save those who believe them. If you look at all sport's, it's just a matter of time before the participant's forget that man was made in the image of God! If your truthful with yourself, you'll find that the outcome most time's is fighting, and the result's of emulation are so powerful that it reaches the audience too, and they wind up fighting. God set these scripture's here so we would not fall victim to these off-set states of mind that make us think wrong about our pupose for being here.

Lee

Orpheus42
01-28-02, 08:52 PM
I am certainly able to play sports without forgetting that my comrades and opponents are men made in the image of God. I haven't had a fight during or after a sporting event in years, nor have I had any desire or felt any ill-will towards the other participants.

Peace, Love, and Jesus Christ,

Jason

bigkat
01-28-02, 09:03 PM
me too, I'm gonna go hoop tonight in fact! I play with these guys every Monday and I've never got in a fight with any of them. Everyone's actually really nice to each other.

Orpheus42
01-28-02, 09:10 PM
Why would an athletic event be any less edifying than, say, a game of chess?

Nicole
01-28-02, 09:29 PM
Well, those guys pretty much said what I was gonna say - It's possible to play sports/watch sports without getting angry/jealous whatever towards the other player.

Lee
01-28-02, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Orpheus42
I am certainly able to play sports without forgetting that my comrades and opponents are men made in the image of God. I haven't had a fight during or after a sporting event in years, nor have I had any desire or felt any ill-will towards the other participants.

Peace, Love, and Jesus Christ,

Jason

"havent had a fight during or after a sporting event in years".

At least you're truthful, having said that i'm confident that you are aware of what i'm speaking about and that some where along the way you have experienced it for yourself. Every person must be persuaded in there own mind!

Peace and Love
Lee

Lee
01-28-02, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by bigkat
me too, I'm gonna go hoop tonight in fact! I play with these guys every Monday and I've never got in a fight with any of them. Everyone's actually really nice to each other.

You guy's must certainly be an exception to the rule, hope it work's out for you, but i will rest assure knowing that when it does not you'll remember this thread, and think on the word of God!

Peace and Love

Lee

Lee
01-28-02, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by Orpheus42
Why would an athletic event be any less edifying than, say, a game of chess?

Orpheus,
I've heard of people shooting there oponet in a checker game. You guy's may be missing the point here, as i said earlier it's not only limited to sports. The sport itself is not the problem,( I could play ball with a friend for the rest of my life, without any problem's as long as we are not in competition against each other), that's where the problem come's in. The sin is hidden deep under the surface and it's having a desire to over-come your neighbor and what it breed's is hate, animosity, anger, wrath.

If a christian own's his own business, it should be his desire for others who are in the same field to be as or more prosperous than his business, recognizing, that like himself they have family's and children to support too. In the world the idea is to do what-ever to put them out of business or consume as much as you can as fast as you can, to keep them from getting it. That's fine for the world, but i do not want to be of the world. It does not matter who you are or what your doing if your desire is to over-come your fellow man, you have lost your idenity!

Peace and Love

Lee

Lee
01-28-02, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by heavenlyprincess
Well, those guys pretty much said what I was gonna say - It's possible to play sports/watch sports without getting angry/jealous whatever towards the other player.

H.P,
In the old testament, there was is a law written: "Thou shall not follow the multitued to do evil". With all due respect, i dont think you believe what you posted. Either way, if i tell you that this board were typing on is grey, and 12 other people tell you that it's black, in the end you will have to make a decision based on the vision God has given you, and that's what you will be accountable for! The true spirit of God is one spirit, and it is speaking the same thing everywhere, and you do not even haft to open the bible to hear it.

Peace and Love

Lee

VG8XP80
01-29-02, 02:27 AM
It depends on how you treat it. Like alcohol. The Bible seems to say not to get drunk. It doesn't say not to ever drink. I don't mean to throw the topic off at all and get started on alcohol, it was just an example I thought of. I don't think being better than someone else is bad either. We all have our gifts and talents, and some of us go further with them, and some of us stay behind. I've entered music contests, and I very much wanted to win. That isn't sinning. Sinning is if I become snobbish and annoyinely arrogant about it. Somebody has to be better than someone else. That's just how humans are created. BTW, I've lost many a contest as well. The person who won didn't sin because I didn't win, he just won and I lost. Period.

bigkat
01-29-02, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Lee


You guy's must certainly be an exception to the rule, hope it work's out for you, but i will rest assure knowing that when it does not you'll remember this thread, and think on the word of God!

Peace and Love

Lee

A while ago a couple of guys got in a fight. The guys that play there are all Christians, but these guys were visitors. They didn't actually start hitting each other, but they were arguing. But the guys running the show were good about it and everyone just stopped playing right there. They said we would play again next week when people were in better control of their temper. That was the only time that I've seen any problem there. I used to play at a different church on Tuesdays and the people there were really nice too. The only places where I've seen a lot of fights/arguments were more at parks and playgrounds. Oh, I was in a basketball class in college where some people got mad at each other. I used to play at the rec center near our old house and I met a lot of really nice guys there to play with. And when I played after work, no one ever got mad at each other. So I don't know if the guys that I play with on Mondays would necessarily be called an exception. When you played, did you play mainly at parks? That might be a reason. I've played with some pretty rough guys at parks. Also when I've played with college level players, it definitely gets more intense.