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Vinnie
01-14-02, 11:50 PM
to believe in Jesus?

I posted this in the discussion forum:

http://www.iljboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4329

Flannel Avenger
01-15-02, 12:19 PM
I was gonna post in the discussion forum, but they've already gone off on a tangent :D

Technically, believing in Jesus doesn't MEAN anything. Atheists BELIEVE in Jesus as a historical figure. I don't remember the reference, but Satan and his minions BELIEVE in Jesus and God but it doesn't help them. You can BELIEVE in Jesus all you want but it doesn't save you. Salvation comes by not only believing in Jesus, but also that He is the Son of God and His death on the cross paid for your sins, and has bridged the gulf between a sinful man and a Holy God.

:angel:

Vinnie
01-15-02, 01:32 PM
Your looking fo James 2:19.

"For even the demons believe and shudder."

But it says: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

I was using believe in the John 3:16 sense. I didn't mean intellectual faith. Other than that, good answer ;)

Flannel Avenger
01-15-02, 02:40 PM
I know, I just wanted to give you an original answer :D

Lee
01-19-02, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by ilgwamh
to believe in Jesus?

I posted this in the discussion forum:

http://www.iljboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4329


Ilgwmah,
I'm thinking that along with many other word's , the true definition of believe has been watered down with tradition, so before i make an attempt to respond to your question, what do you think that believe means?

Vinnie
01-19-02, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Lee
Ilgwmah,
I'm thinking that along with many other word's , the true definition of believe has been watered down with tradition, so before i make an attempt to respond to your question, what do you think that believe means?

I'll answer my own question first:

The earthy Jesus was God incarnate. God lowered himself and dwelt among us in flesh. He performed many miracles, critiqued socially accepted practices of the day and tried to teach us to love our neighbor as we love ourself. He advocated charity and humility. He did not turn away the sick, the destitute nor the outcasts. He showed them compassion. He instituted a new moral paradigm based upon his own doings and life that I would call impossible to meet. He uttered hard sayings. The disciples, those closest to him had a lot of trouble understanding many of the things he said and did. He based the self-understanding of himself on the OT and he taught us to Love God first. He is the Messiah, though the Messianic figure of the Jews was largely reinterpreted. He was rejected, mocked, beaten, spit upon and finally crucified. He died the most humiliating death a "criminal" could die. His tomb was found empty and he appeared to people bodily over a period of around 40 days after that.

God is Holy and the only reason He can forgive sin is because on the Cross he took our sins and washed them free. Because of Jesus' death God can forgive. Christ's death was foreordained from eternity past and God does not experience time in the same manner as us. For that reason God was able to forgive before the event happened. I don't believe knowledge saves. Head knowledge of Christ does not save people. I don't believe every "Christian" is saved and I don't believe every "atheist," "Buddhist," et al. isn't. God will judge each person individually based upon the light they were given and what they did with it. He sees the heart, not me.

That is a pretty basic Statement of Faith for me. Most of the other stuff is non-salvific and of less importance:

I like this Lewis quote because it delineates my view quite well:

C.S. Lewis 'Mere Christianity' page 86-87
Human beings judge one another by their external actions. God judges them by their moral choices. When a neurotic who has a pathological horror of cats forces himself to pick up a cat for some good reason, it is quite possible that in God's eyes he has shown more courage than a healthy man may have shown in winning the V.C. When a man who has been perverted from his youth and taught that cruelty is the right thing, does some tiny little kindness, or refrains from some cruelty he might have committed, and thereby, perhaps, risks being sneered at by his companions, he may, in God's eyes, be doing more than you and I would do if we gave up life itself for a friend.

It is as well to put this the other way round. Some of us who seem quite nice people may, in fact, have made so little use of a good heredity and a good upbringing that we are really worse than those whom we regard as friends. Can we be quite certain how we should have behaved if we had been saddled with the psychological outfit, and then with the bad upbringing, and then with the power, say, of Himmler? That is why Christians are told not to judge. We see only the results which a man's choices make out of his raw material. But god does not judge him on the raw material at all, but on what he has done with it. Most of the man's psychological make-up is probably due to his body: when his body dies all that will fall off him, and the real central man, the thing that chose, that made the best or worst of this material, will stand naked. All sorts of nice things which we thought our own, but which were really due to good digestion, will fall off some of us: all sorts of nasty things which were due to complexes or bad health will fall off others. We shall then, for the first time, see every one as he really was. There will be surprises.

Off the top of my head: Believe can mean to intellectually know something (E.G. I do believe so myself) it can mean to know something with probability (e.g. I believe it will snow tomorrow) or it can be confidence, trust and faith in someone or something (e.g. I believe in you).
Thoughts?

Lee
01-19-02, 01:59 PM
Vinnie,
It sound's like to me, by your responce that your question was leaning more to who was Jesus rather than, What it means to believe Him and could you explain to me, why it is you do not believe, that God would set up a standard for you, that he could not fufill in you! You refered to yourself when you said, That Jesus set up a paradigm that was impossible to meet. I'm struggling to respond to this in a manner that would result in edification, so please bear with me.

The power in The operation of salvation lies in this: Jn.3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease". What im saying is it's Christ in us the hope of Glory. If the example Jesus set for us to follow is obtained it will be evident that the work is of God and not of man. Jesus said these things are imossible for men, but nothing was impossible for God. The reason Im saying these things, The bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God has given to christians the power to strengthen one another with the scriptures and this is some of what it is all about.

Peace and Love
Lee

Breni Sue
03-17-02, 01:53 AM
*bump*

Lawrence
03-17-02, 09:47 AM
I was led to believe in the denomination I was raised in that to 'believe' meant to just believe that Jesus existed 2000 years ago. I like the way the Amplified Bible phrases it. To believe in Him means " to rely on, to adhere to and trust in Him".

cujo95
03-17-02, 09:05 PM
To believe in Jesus means to believe Jesus.
Not just to believe in who He is and what He has done, but having faith in who He is, one puts his faith in what He has done.

Here is what the Apostle John says:

"We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:9-13)