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Paulo
06-17-16, 11:02 PM
Is there a link between:

If you have faith as big as a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to move into an ocean

And

The parable of the mustard seed, the smallest seed, growing into the biggest tree?

There must be right? I have faith enough to contribute to prayer, enough to believe in God unwaveringly and for a number of reasons as well as other arguments that aren't related to logic, but I can't get a mountain to move into an ocean (yes I've tried). Jesus is saying that actually the mustard seed IS a big thing? Or is passage of time also important here?

Rick G.
06-18-16, 10:29 AM
Is there a link between:

If you have faith as big as a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to move into an ocean

And

The parable of the mustard seed, the smallest seed, growing into the biggest tree?

There must be right? I have faith enough to contribute to prayer, enough to believe in God unwaveringly and for a number of reasons as well as other arguments that aren't related to logic, but I can't get a mountain to move into an ocean (yes I've tried). Jesus is saying that actually the mustard seed IS a big thing? Or is passage of time also important here?

Hi Paulo,

You pose an interesting question, and I am not sure what sort of answer you are seeking. Both of those statements are rooted in "parables". Parables are defined as:

1. a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
2. a statement or comment that conveys a meaning indirectly by the use of comparison, analogy, or the like.

Having faith as small as a Mustard Seed is all that is needed to have the power to move mountains. Faith, like the Mustard Seed, if planted and nurtured daily will grow to be as large as the mighty tree. However, our prayers must align with the scripture, and the sovereign will of God.

If one desires to pray that a mountain actually moves into the ocean, one needs to pray first and ask if it is the will of God that His mountain be moved into the ocean because (logically) it no longer is where He wants it.

It's my understanding that God always answers prayer, even if the answer is NO, or NOT YET...

Ann
06-18-16, 03:25 PM
You have probably heard the saying it's not how big your faith is it's how big your God is. The emphasis and the dynamic is in Him, in His strength not in showing off our faith or our power.

There are 2 things about a mustard seed that come to mind. It is alive and when it is planted it can grow. If it is just shut up in one of those little globe things people wear on a necklace or a key chain it is not planted and it is not going to grow. If it is in the seasoning shelf in the kitchen it is not going to grow productively either. What does that tell us about our faith? It has to be alive. If our faith is to be compared to the mustard seen it too must be alive and planted so it can grow. What is alive faith? Faith in Jesus who is the way the truth and the life (John 14:5) . In Him is life (John 1:4) apart from Him there is no life only dead works. So our mustard seed faith must be alive in Jesus Christ and when it is it can grow. How does faith grow? Romans 10:17 tells us "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Our faith can grow from tiny seed to tall tree when it is rooted and grounded in Jesus Christ and in His word. Jesus tells us in John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." So it is with our faith. We need to continually be in Christ and in his written word so that our faith can take root and be alive and grow and

Bob Carabbio
08-23-16, 05:21 PM
Is there a link between:

If you have faith as big as a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to move into an ocean

And

The parable of the mustard seed, the smallest seed, growing into the biggest tree?

There must be right? I have faith enough to contribute to prayer, enough to believe in God unwaveringly and for a number of reasons as well as other arguments that aren't related to logic, but I can't get a mountain to move into an ocean (yes I've tried). Jesus is saying that actually the mustard seed IS a big thing? Or is passage of time also important here?

In my experience 99% of what the Visible Church CALLS "Faith" has nothing to do with "Faith" at all. WHat FAITH is - is defined in HEb 11:1 and anything that is CALLED FAITH that isn't a SUBSTANCE of what's hoped for, and Isn't EVIDENCE that what's not there, will be - isn't FAITH at all, regardless of what "name" we give it.

I used to have a Bible study in the '70s which were a time of GREAT hunger spiritually in the MIdwest. I was "Full Gospel", but the others in the group were United Church of Christ, which is as totally liberal a bunch as you could find. And so what I taught were "Basics of the Faith".

And then one of the ladies in the group brought her son. He'd just been discharged from the hospital, and sent home to die with some sort of Bone cancer that was all over him inside. Nothing the medical community had done had any effect. He was 26, recently married, hairless, colorless, cold to the touch, weak as a kitten, and essentially a dead man walking. NO hope.

And his Mother said - God has let me know that My son won't die, but will be healed completely. Don't pray for his healing, just thank God for his provision in his life. And so we didn't pray for healing, but DID thank God for His Answer. I'm not saying I "Bought into it" at the time - when you see a need it's EASY to "HEar a voice". BUT God DOES HEAL, and God DOES SPEAK to his people, so we went with it.

There was no Spectacular show of FAITH, no Whooping and hollering, just his mother saying, matter of factly - He's Gonna recover - when there WAS NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AT ALL that anything would happen.

An the next time, we met there was no change, and we thanked God for his provision, and about a month later the son had color, and then Hair, and his strength returned, and 6 months later he was pronounced Cancer free, and 30 years later, he was a deacon in the AG CHurch in St. Mary's OH.

And Mom KNEW (because God had told her) that it would all happen - before ANYTHING happened.

Rom 10:17 say that Faith comes by HEARING, and Hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

Paul asks the Galatians: does the one who works miracles among you, do it by the works of the law, or BY THE HEARING OF FAITH?

God's Word to US is what we can put our FAITH in, and when we have His WORD on a thing - it's DONE.

Ann
08-23-16, 08:05 PM
strong testimony. \0/

One thing is that what God tells us will always agree w His written word. The original not necessarily w some person's interpretation or paraphrase thereof

Bob Carabbio
08-24-16, 12:54 AM
strong testimony. \0/

One thing is that what God tells us will always agree w His written word. The original not necessarily w some person's interpretation or paraphrase thereof

Agreed - HOWEVER

What God TELLS US may NOT agree with this or that DENOMINATION'S INTERPRETATION of God's Word - which is why there's the lack of unity in the "Visible Church".

Ann
08-24-16, 04:16 AM
Thus the comment the original not some persons interpretation or paraphrase.

Paulo
08-25-16, 04:32 AM
Very interesting Bob and very good points. I suspected the reason I couldn't move a mountain into an ocean was because my faith wasn't all there - of course I had doubt. It's the kind of thing only Jesus could do.

Ann
08-25-16, 02:09 PM
There is also that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans10:17). Playing with mountains to see if it will work may sound fun and many of not all new believers have some some measure of that think but unless one knows one has heard from God that this mountain is to move at this time the mountain may be serving God's purpose where it is.

Ann
08-25-16, 02:17 PM
Which leads to my favorite mountain moving story I was staying with friends in tome Mountain GA and their back door offered a great view of the worlds largest granite outcropping aka Stone Mountain all 1686 feet of it. I used to like to stop and look at a while on my way to work or wherever. Then one chilly foggy mountain I walked out the door and no mountain. I am not a morning person so I was a bit foggy too but no there was just gray sky as far as the eye could see. Just then their 12 year old came out the door headed for the school bud, looked at my puzzled face and said "O I spoke to it and it moved"

Slowly my mind put together the fog with the missing mountain but you know I still drove out there that afternoon just to make sure it was still there

Ann
08-25-16, 02:19 PM
ilj tradition is that the person who answers well gets to post the next question if u want.

Paulo
08-25-16, 06:13 PM
There is also that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans10:17). Playing with mountains to see if it will work may sound fun and many of not all new believers have some some measure of that think but unless one knows one has heard from God that this mountain is to move at this time the mountain may be serving God's purpose where it is.

yeah, playing with mountains to see if it will work is too close to 'putting your God to the test'. must remember to avoid that kind of thing.

Bob Carabbio
08-25-16, 09:33 PM
yeah, playing with mountains to see if it will work is too close to 'putting your God to the test'. must remember to avoid that kind of thing.

I Think often of the cripple at the temple gate - And here's Peter with his "silver and Gold have I none,but THAT WHICH I HAVE GIVE I THEE"

What Peter HAD was THE ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE (in faith) via the Holy Spirit about what ministry HE HAD, and that it was time to exercise it. The Cripple had no "faith" - all he wanted was a donation. And Peter PICKED HIM UP!!!

You'd BETTER know what's gonna happen when you pick up a cripple!!!! You might have to put him down again if it's not REAL - and you might break him.

SO the question that we need to ASK OURSELVES when we get to playing around with "Faith" is whether or not WHAT WE CALL faith satisfies BOTH of the criteria in Hebrews 11:1.

Does what you call "FAITH" have REAL SUBSTANCE of what you're hoping for (like the Mother with the dying son's healing) - or is it nothing but "hopeful belief"???? AND Is What You Call "FAITH" a conclusive EVIDENCE that YOU HAVE - what you don't see?? Peter knew what the cripple would do when he picked him up -

Mark 11:22-24 is a practical application "without DOUBT IN YOUR HEART" (and you're OK with V25 too). When you KNOW what God is doing - then SPEAK IT and you will have it. We don't have any problem telling folks that we're SAVED, Born Again of the Spirit, and heaven bound, do we??? We don't have a problem telling folks that our SIN IS GONE, and we're perfect before God with the very perfection of Jesus Himself in Faith.

Popular/TOXIC Word of Faith teaches it's people to PRETEND to have faith that they DON'T have, and PRETEND to believe what they don't REALLY believe, and go around "Professing" that they have - what they don't really have at all. And then they wonder why it "didn't work" (in Popular WoF - it's ALWAYS YOUR FAULT for doing it wrong).

FAITH doesn't "pretend" - it KNOWS.

Abraham, when GOd told him to go kill his son, told the folks with the pack animals: Gen 22:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Seems as though Abraham knew something about FAITH - probably wasn't sure HOW it was gonna go down, but DID know that Him and Issac, would return.

Ann
08-25-16, 09:43 PM
agree especially about some of the problems w what some call word of faith lost a very special friend to that bec she felt she would be failing God to seek medical help, However "hopeful belief " id OK when reaching out and asking God to help us. He will never condemn us for something like "I know your word says ____ and I want to believe please help me or as the child's father said "I believe help thou my unbelief" in Matthew 9:24

Paulo
08-25-16, 10:02 PM
I Think often of the cripple at the temple gate - And here's Peter with his "silver and Gold have I none,but THAT WHICH I HAVE GIVE I THEE"

What Peter HAD was THE ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE (in faith) via the Holy Spirit about what ministry HE HAD, and that it was time to exercise it. The Cripple had no "faith" - all he wanted was a donation. And Peter PICKED HIM UP!!!

You'd BETTER know what's gonna happen when you pick up a cripple!!!! You might have to put him down again if it's not REAL - and you might break him.

SO the question that we need to ASK OURSELVES when we get to playing around with "Faith" is whether or not WHAT WE CALL faith satisfies BOTH of the criteria in Hebrews 11:1.

Does what you call "FAITH" have REAL SUBSTANCE of what you're hoping for (like the Mother with the dying son's healing) - or is it nothing but "hopeful belief"???? AND Is What You Call "FAITH" a conclusive EVIDENCE that YOU HAVE - what you don't see?? Peter knew what the cripple would do when he picked him up -

Mark 11:22-24 is a practical application "without DOUBT IN YOUR HEART" (and you're OK with V25 too). When you KNOW what God is doing - then SPEAK IT and you will have it. We don't have any problem telling folks that we're SAVED, Born Again of the Spirit, and heaven bound, do we??? We don't have a problem telling folks that our SIN IS GONE, and we're perfect before God with the very perfection of Jesus Himself in Faith.

Popular/TOXIC Word of Faith teaches it's people to PRETEND to have faith that they DON'T have, and PRETEND to believe what they don't REALLY believe, and go around "Professing" that they have - what they don't really have at all. And then they wonder why it "didn't work" (in Popular WoF - it's ALWAYS YOUR FAULT for doing it wrong).

FAITH doesn't "pretend" - it KNOWS.

Abraham, when GOd told him to go kill his son, told the folks with the pack animals: Gen 22:

5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

Seems as though Abraham knew something about FAITH - probably wasn't sure HOW it was gonna go down, but DID know that Him and Issac, would return.

I feel I have total faith. It's just what are you asking me here, why wasn't I able to move the mountain? Why would it be God's will for me to move the mountain?

I have opened up to people about my Faith to try and spread the word. A lot of people just don't react well. It's not a strong gift I have - I may have others?

Bob Carabbio
08-26-16, 07:04 PM
why wasn't I able to move the mountain?

Because God didn't intend for the mountain to move, and never told you that he intended have YOU speak the Word of Faith that would get it done.

Consequently, YOU HAD NO FAITH that the mountain would move. God hadn't clued you in that He'd move it when you told it to go. Simple as that.

Why would it be God's will for me to move the mountain?

Since He didn't give you the power to do it, obviously it WASN"T his will the the mountain be moved.

I have opened up to people about my Faith to try and spread the word. A lot of people just don't react well. It's not a strong gift I have - I may have others?

Faith gets trickey. But the bottom line is that either you HAVE FAITH for something (because God TOLD YOU what He was going to do) or you don't.

Shadrach didn't have SPECIFIC FAITH that they were gonna survive the furnace (he was probably more surprised than the king was), but he DID have FAITH that God to do the right thing by him and the others.

Peter had SPECIFIC FAITH that when he picked up the cripple, he'd be healed and walk.

Faith Comes by HEARING, and hearing by the Word of God. ONE aspect of that is "Conviction of SIN" - without which you can't be saved.

Bob Carabbio
08-26-16, 10:18 PM
ilj tradition is that the person who answers well gets to post the next question if u want.

Roger Wilco -

Bob Carabbio
09-01-16, 02:28 AM
Is there a link between:

If you have faith as big as a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to move into an ocean

And the "Mustard seed" is YOU believing God's Word to YOU.

And

The parable of the mustard seed, the smallest seed, growing into the biggest tree?

I don't believe so - a "Mustard seed DOESN'T grow into a great tree, and "Birds" are generally signs of EVIL presence. So the parable appears to be saying that "something unnatural will be happening" - i.e. the Mustard seed IS NOT PRODUCING what it should produce (Committed Christians, focused on the Lord, and his work), but instead produced "Vast religious organizations" full of Corruption, and "business ethics", providing a home for evil.

I can't get a mountain to move into an ocean (yes I've tried).

Which is because you never had FAITH to move the mountain. FAITH is invariably a GIFT, and the Galatian issue is present: "THe one who does MIRACLES among you - does he do it by the "Works of the law, OR BY THE HEARING of FAITH"???

FAITH comes by HEARING, and Hearing by the Word of God (which is anything GOD SAYS to you).