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Paulo
09-19-14, 10:28 PM
With Revelation John. The dragon stood on the sea, 'I' stood on the sea, was this Jesus dictating to Satan? It's all a bit nuts but maybe Satan's a bit nuts...

Paulo
09-19-14, 11:11 PM
(ok, trying to make a bit of a joke here, but seriously - it could have been Jesus dictating to Satan what was going to happen and Satan writing it, but still the word of God? I'm not sure how else you explain the I/John bit. Unless it was definitely John.)

Ann
09-20-14, 02:11 AM
What chapter and verse please? And what translation? The only verse I find in KJV that contains both dragon and sea is Isaiah 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. Of course I could read all of revelation and look for it but not tonight and probably not this week the way life is so help please. Thanks/

Paulo
09-21-14, 08:14 AM
Very start of Revelation 13. 'The dragon stood on the shore of the sea', at least I've read in Bibles it's sometimes 'I stood on the shore of the sea.' KJV I found googling is 'And I stood upon the sand of the sea'.

BTW I use Catholic Edition RSV for a few reasons. Firstly, The OT Catholic version is what the Jews were using at the time of Jesus, including Ben Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) and Maccabees 1 and 2, plus other bits. The Jews decided hundreds of years later to exclude the Catholic books, but at the time of Jesus, those Catholic Jewish books were in use.

Furthermore, I use the Oxford University edition. Oxford University was around before King James and the split, so it seems to me it's a pretty trustworthy one. I'm not so keen on Douay-Rheims. Also Oxford University has always been a Christian place, that's kind of the whole idea.

Also, the Catholic church started with Pope Simon Peter...like I consider myself non-denominational but it has to be the Catholic edition for me.

Paulo
09-21-14, 08:19 AM
ok yeah can't find anywhere now where it says it was the dragon on the shore of the sea. i'm pretty sure i've read that somewhere though. unless it's my schizophrenia, sometimes that happens, if so, apologies...

Paulo
09-21-14, 08:24 AM
Ok yeah, NASB seems to say 'dragon'.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=NASB

Paulo
09-21-14, 09:13 AM
Satan falls out of Heaven twice, right? There's the fall at the beginning and the fall again where he comes down to deceive the world as the Anti-Christ. Where he's thrown down by the Archangel Michael and all his angels thrown down with him. That's the fall which happened 2 or 3 decades ago.

Revelation 12

1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

2 she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery.

3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.

4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth;

5 she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.

11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"

13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child.

14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood.

16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon had poured from his mouth.

17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Paulo
09-21-14, 09:18 AM
Also Job 1

Job 1

1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil.

2 There were born to him seven sons and three daughters.

3 He had seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she-asses, and very many servants; so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the east.

4 His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each on his day; and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them.

5 And when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, "It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did continually.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

7 The LORD said to Satan, "Whence have you come?" Satan answered the LORD, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."

8 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?"

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast thou not put a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

11 But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse thee to thy face."

12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself do not put forth your hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

13 Now there was a day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house;

14 and there came a messenger to Job, and said, "The oxen were plowing and the asses feeding beside them;

15 and the Sabe'ans fell upon them and took them, and slew the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you."

16 While he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell you."

17 While he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, "The Chalde'ans formed three companies, and made a raid upon the camels and took them, and slew the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you."

18 While he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house;

19 and behold, a great wind came across the wilderness, and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young people, and they are dead; and I alone have escaped to tell you."

20 Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell upon the ground, and worshiped.

21 And he said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return; the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD."

22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.

Like ok, Satan could have been presenting himself before God on Earth rather than in Heaven, but I think Revelation 12 makes it clear that Satan is kicked out of Heaven before the end of times events described in Revelation and the prophets.

Ann
09-25-14, 10:15 PM
Paulo not ignoring u on purpose this has been a rough week will get back to this as soon as I have physical and mental energy,