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View Full Version : Do you think that ilj can handle more Biblical and/or theological discussion?


Ann
05-29-08, 04:47 PM
Biblical and/or theological discussion is welcome in CF as long as it stays dscussion not argument. However the perception of some is that it is not encouraged or accepted. This of course goes back to the bad old days of the open debate and discussion bd. It seems however that perhaps in trying to avoid the problems and wounds that brought we are avoiding area about which people wish they could talk. What do you think. Is the group we have here now mature enough? Should we continue to just encourage these discussions in CF or have a separate forum? If a separate forum should it be open to all members or be a specific membership bd like the Men's and Women's bds? Personally I'd love there to be a place at ilj where people shared more of what the Lord is showing them and encouraged others to get into His word more and seek His face more. I don't care whether that is in CF or a bd just for that. I do care very much that all members be respected and that people not get taking pot shots at each other bec of differences especially not because of differences in things I consideral peripheral to the basics of faith in Christ. We worked very hard to craft terms of service in a way that made people welcome without restrictions in those areas.

For simplicity sake I'm going to make a poll on this but please make comments too. Thanks.

Flannel Avenger
05-29-08, 10:54 PM
It depends on whether or not there will be one set of rules for everybody. Both in theory and in practice.

Ann
05-29-08, 11:10 PM
point well taken

Breni Sue
05-30-08, 12:45 AM
As long as we don't get into the mentality that one view is right and anyone with a different view is wrong, I'm fine with it. That was one of the things that ran me away from this place so long ago. Everyone has differing beliefs regarding the rapture/tribulation, what parts of the bible should be taken literally or metaphorically, and what it says regarding certain subjects. And I feel those views should be respected, even if we may disagree with them. I think that if everyone could keep that in mind and try to hold to it, it has a chance of working out. IMO any discussion that starts off with the mentality of "I'm right and you're wrong" is doomed to fail every time.

Paulo
05-30-08, 01:46 AM
I'm always worried about getting involved in this kind of thing because I'm scared of posting something which I hold to be true but which the board admins are totally against.

Ann
05-30-08, 06:08 AM
The basic beliefs which would be the standard for that and any other bd at ilj are set forth in terms of service to which all members claim they agree when joining. For simplicity sake I'll include the parts of TOS relevant to this here too.

ILJ Statement of Belief and Terms of Service:
There are some basic beliefs that form the heart of this site. Here are some of the most basic of these beliefs:
The Bible is the word of God. It tells us the history of the human race and shows the standards for Christian behavior. The Bible tells us that in the beginning God was. He existed before all else. God created heaven and earth, humans and animals. Humans were created in Godís image to be in fellowship with Him. They were not puppets but had free will and could make choices. The first humans sinned by disobeying God. This sin separated humans from fellowship with God. All humans since then have been born with a sin nature. All people have sinned; they are less righteous than God. The wages of sin is death, eternal separation from God and punishment in a literal hell. God still loves humans and does not want us to be condemned to eternal death. He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, to be our Savior. Jesus the Christ was 100% God and 100% man at the same time. Jesus never sinned. Because He did not sin, He could offer himself as a sacrifice to take the punishment for our sin. He died on the cross, was buried, and rose on the third day to demonstrate that His sacrifice was accepted by God. We can be saved from eternal death and hell and come into fellowship with God only by faith in the power of His blood to make atonement for our sin. When we receive Jesus as our Savior we die to our old nature and are made new in Him.

You do not have to believe what we believe to come to this site or post on these boards. You do need to realize, though, that these beliefs are the standards for this board. Anyone is welcome to ask questions and participate in discussions. All boards are moderated and posts which disparage or are disrespectful to God, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, or the standards of right and decency set forth in the Bible will not be permitted. If anyone persists in posting things like that they will lose the privilege of posting on this site....

Although the administrators and moderators of ILJ Boards will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of ILJ Boards, Christian Web Host, Inc., nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of ILJ Boards reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws. We reserve the right to delete any message, topic, to ban a username, IP address, domain name, or email address for *any reason* that we (the owners of this board) feel is deserved (especially if you repeatedly post argumentative or offending posts).
You also agree that you will not post any messages on our boards that try to persuade others against Christianty, promote a distorted view of the Bible, promote pro-abortion views or the homosexual lifestyle. You may think this narrowminded, but this is our site and if you want to argue, please go elsewhere. That is not what this place is for and never has been.

We pray that ilj boards will be a blessing to each person who comes here. If you have questions or need help please feel free to email a moderator or one of the admins. The owners of ILJBoards.com and its moderators have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. Once again, by clicking the button below to proceed with the registration process, you are agreeing to be bound by these terms of posting.

In terms of the specific things mentioned different iews re rapture and tribulation would certainly be welcomed and we wouild ask and insist that ppl holding different viewpoints respect each other and respect Jesus who lives in the person with whom they ma differ to the point where they recognize that in insulting or disparaging their brother or sister in the Lord they disparage and insult the Lord who lives within that person. I have probably heard both sides of every possible rapture and trib viewpoint and have yet to kill anyone over it and have managed to avoid being killed by anyone over it thus far so there is probably hope for the rest of us. Most ppl here know my voews on it and also know that I would be very happy to be incorrect on this one. The board standard is to take the Bible literally except where something is clearly allegorical or illustrative *(see TOS above)

BTW nothing in this thread or this discussion is meant to limit anyone from posting anything of a Biblical or theological nature in CF provided it is something that is w/in TOS.

Does anyone else find it highly ironic that someone who was a collegiate debater and had argumentation as part of their major and whose favorite off line Bible discussions are or border on debate is the one charged with enforcing the no debate policy?

Don Disney
05-30-08, 04:00 PM
As long as you all realize that I'm always right :raspberry than I think it would be fine.

Ann
05-30-08, 04:23 PM
Only One is always right. Thankfully He is also merciful.

Angeleyes19
05-30-08, 10:13 PM
I would like a forum for this purpose. But in the past on other boards people signed up just for the purpose of posting in those threads to argue and disagree and just be mean... So, I think that any forum like that should be in a place where maybe everyone can read the posts, but only people who have maybe made a certain number of posts to prove themselves 'trustworthy' should be able to reply to/make a new thread in the forum. But that's just my opinion. Kind of like in the 'Ask' forum.

Susan
06-01-08, 05:05 PM
Would that include questions about how Christians should respond to people who are homosexual? How about the possibilities and limits of forgiveness? :sail:

Ann
06-01-08, 10:11 PM
I would think those would both be appropriate topics

Paulo
06-02-08, 05:22 AM
Are there limits to forgiveness? I won't start a discussion in this thread but I'd be interested in something like that.

Ann
06-02-08, 01:17 PM
So maybe start a separate thread :)

Susan
06-02-08, 06:50 PM
Are there limits to forgiveness? I won't start a discussion in this thread but I'd be interested in something like that.

That's what I'd like to discuss, Paulo. I've been reading some books by Holocaust survivors, and they're rough reads. So...feel free to start a thread--I'll drop by as I can! :hmm:

Juliet
06-03-08, 02:02 PM
I suppose we could try this. As long as the rules are clear and are understood by everyone involved (including those in charge). I think ILJ could handle it. A lot of good points have been made here and I think if we put it all together it could work. Just my 2cents worth.

Ann
06-03-08, 11:09 PM
What in addition to ilj terms of service do you suggest for ground rules? Do you favor an open or closed forum or one that is open but only those w/ a certain number of posts can access?

Don Disney
06-06-08, 01:46 PM
I would suggest that some rules that would help would be a cooling off period for posters to post. This would force people to first of all cool down and think of what they want to post, and It should force them to study out what God's Holy word has to say about the topic. I would suggest that a poster use there own words and keep links to others opinion to a min. And finally people would have to understand that while we as Christians can have different view on non essential doctrines and we can still enjoy fellowship with one another.

RobWrestler247
06-06-08, 06:07 PM
I vote yes, but a seperate section of the board should be opened up for it.

Ann
06-06-08, 08:17 PM
Good points both of you.

Teresa
06-06-08, 08:40 PM
I think it would be worth a try. At another board I go to they required us to "read and agree" with the rules before we could get in. I think they enforce the one warning and then you're out policy and also that you have to have a certain number of posts before you can join. With some sure rules and enforcement it might be fun!

BTW, I love:frypan: a tough, decisive mod.:)

Ann
06-06-08, 09:14 PM
:hug:

Charles
06-07-08, 09:25 PM
I'd suggest it be open at first or part of Christian Fellowship and move to a closed board is people need a bit of extra reminding about manners. Is there a way that it can be set so thise who are here regularly can post straight out and anyone else would be moderated till their attitude is seen? I know we all have pet doctrines, hot points - not saying flame points but I think most everyone here now knows themself well enough to know when they need to :chill: and when they can post passionately but without wrath or malice. But then I only got ODD second hand. I can tell you that if it ever gets like that it needs to end quickly.

tann
06-08-08, 02:48 PM
I do not like nor do I enjoy debate..
I have 2 sons that thrive on it..:argue:
Drives me nuts...
I always end up frustrated ..:rolleyes:
God has not blessed me with the ability to communicate what He has done and what I know is true..
I always end up with just one comment..

Joh 9:25 "one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see." :grandma:

And that can be very hard because if the one I am sharing with believes a lie then there is nothing I can do to help them come to the truth except pray God will break through and show them...hard..

If you do a debate forum then Lord Bless you with His wisdom in dealing with all the deception we as Christians can find ourselves caught up in... :ipray:

Ann
06-08-08, 06:06 PM
Absolutely no danger of a debate forumat ilj. gracie would :hissyfit: and she gets to override everyone else for the obvious reasons that she and her husband are the ones the Lord blessed with the inspiration for ilj, and they are the ones he put in authority here, and she pays the bills for the site. I am thinking that we have sort of avoided discussions with much depth in our efforts to avoid debate and disagreeableness (as vs disagreement) and that there may be more of a perception that that is a site policy than that it really is a policy here. So I wanted us to talk about it and see how folks feel on the subject.

How ever verbal and expressive anyone may be it is only the Holy Spirit who can really change anyone's heart so relying on Him is a blessing not a wrong, Tann.

Ann
08-25-08, 12:41 PM
This came up again this weekend in two other ilj boards so to help clarify where we are at about it. Please see post immediately above this re debate per se. Serious discussions are welcome in any ilj board (tho how serious one can be in a Wacky World may be questionable but it's not impossible). The people be courteous and that ilj TOS be followed. The parts of TOS that seem to me most relevant to this are

"You do not have to believe what we believe to come to this site or post on these boards. You do need to realize, though, that these beliefs are the standards for this board. Anyone is welcome to ask questions and participate in discussions. All boards are moderated and posts which disparage or are disrespectful to God, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, or the standards of right and decency set forth in the Bible will not be permitted. "

"By clicking the Agree button, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws. We reserve the right to delete any message, topic, to ban a username, IP address, domain name, or email address for *any reason* that we (the owners of this board) feel is deserved (especially if you repeatedly post argumentative or offending posts).

You also agree that you will not post any messages on our boards that try to persuade others against Christianty, promote a distorted view of the Bible, promote pro-abortion views or the homosexual lifestyle. You may think this narrowminded, but this is our site and if you want to argue, please go elsewhere. That is not what this place is for and never has been. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

These are standards that were set forth by the bd owners. They also request thgat we be sourteous, avoid name calling etc. Nothing in TOS or in the interpertation of TOS by any current mods or admins should prohibit us from talking seriously about things and ideas that are important to us or ones on which we just want to get some input. Hopefully we can do this w/o having to set up a separate bd. Some of the best discussions lately have been in the review bd. Others have been in CF. Who knows where they will turn up next.

larry9179
08-26-08, 02:07 PM
This is not meant as criticism, just my own observations and why I spend more time on other forums than ILJ: Most of what I see on ILJ are posts where people keep in touch, say Happy Birthday, etc. That's fine, but kind of ignores the spiritual struggles and victories that occur on a regular basis for those who are serious about a relationship with Christ. The only area people can ask questions is one where only moderators can respond, thereby making the moderator the official voice of God as though no one else here has the maturity, experience and calling to help.

If the purpose of ILJ is a place where people can come and chill, that's one thing, but if people want to talk about more substantive things, like the recent fall of the Lakeland Revival and how it affects those who believed it was a move of God, there's not much room here for that.

Opening the forum to debate and discussion is risky; but it's not so much a maturity issue as a trusting one. Do we want to pretend, or do we want to be honest and transparent? I believe we're taught in church to be disingenuine - that we must appear to meet the standards of an institution: what to wear to church, do we tithe, do we serve, do we attend faithfully, etc. Jesus didn't place expectations upon people, He met them where they were. Controversy didn't bother Him, He was not threatened by religious people, He wasn't too good to spend time with the unrighteous people. My point is, are we here to serve a forum, or are we here to share our relationship with Christ - wherever on our spiritual journeys that might find us?

I think the time for milk is past; bring on the meat.

Ann
08-26-08, 07:38 PM
Please allow me to clarify some things as there may be others who have the same impressions.

1. There is not and never has been a rule or policy that ASK is the only place to ask questions or bring up serious issues. The policy re that is that if a person wants responses only from ppl recognized in ministry by ilj the Ask bd is available for that, if they want general responses they can post on any of the other bds. There have in fact been times that ppl have posted in both places and times when I asked the person who started the thread for permission to copy it into CF so more ppl could offer responses. One thing that has been true is that at least since 1999 there has been a policy that pretty much no subject was taboo on Ask. The moderation of posts there started bec of some very cruel things that were posted to some who asked questions there. There is no way to allow posts that are questions to appear w/o moderstion and moderate others so all are now moderated. The final instance was when some person who should be very grateful that I did not have their address told a woman that she was going straight to hell for nonsubmission because she refused to restrain her preteen child while her husband raped her and a few others who should also be glad I did not know where to find them posted in agreement. The decision at that point was between prohibiting all questions of a serious nature to prevent a repetition of that or moderating posts before they hit the boards. This was not a single instance but the last straw in a several months similar misplaced legalalism and inappropriate behavior by people posting anonemously from more than 20 different ISPs including a few encouraging other types of abuse, some encouraging suicide, some demanding that if people loved Jesus they stop all medication use, etc. Sometimes it helps understand something to know how it came about.

2. The no debate rule we have to live with bec it is the site owners who pay the bill and after the way some ppl behaved when there was a debate forum quite frankly they do not have the trust that it will not be repeated. Having been here through those battles and threats and recriminations and other extreemly ungodly behavior on the part of people who claimed to be followers of Christ and have Him ruling in their hearts as well as those who made no such claims I can understand their viewpoint. Discussion is entirely a different matter. It is achallenge sometimes to disagree without being disagreeable about it but I really believe we can do that with the Holy Spirit's help.

3. The TOS statements that a condition of membership is agreeing not to post things that messages that "are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.""disparage or are disrespectful to God, The Lord Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, the Bible, or the standards of right and decency set forth in the Bible. " "persuade others against Christianty, promote a distorted view of the Bible, promote pro-abortion views or the homosexual lifestyle. " also come from the site owners and most of them were in place some time before I came to the bds in the fall of 1998. They are not likely to change. Please note that this does not mean that abortion, homosexuality, etc.can not be discussed simply that they can not be advocated.

4. I can not agree that thee have been no serious discussions here since ODD bd closed. I do not know what has gone on in the men's area but there have been some deep from the heart sharing times in the women's bd bec that was where the person starting the tread chose to put it. There have also been discussions in CF that seemed to me to be serious one of them was the abortion discussion in which I believe you had the concluding word last yr, Larry.

I personally would welcome a discussion of what happened and did not happen with Lakeland which you mentioned. I am well aware that my views on some things differ from those of many other people here and that they may differ in from what some people believe that I believe, My hope and my prayer here is that we can learn to speak the truth in love and each gain from one another a greater understanding of the one who is the Truth

Flannel Avenger
08-26-08, 08:16 PM
The mens board is so empty that you could probably hide an aircraft carrier in there and nobody would notice...

Ann
08-26-08, 08:26 PM
Be ye braggin or complainin?

Flannel Avenger
08-26-08, 08:46 PM
Neither, just sayin'.

Ann
08-27-08, 12:06 AM
backed out of that tunnel fast didn't ya. :)

tann
08-27-08, 11:29 AM
This is not meant as criticism, just my own observations and why I spend more time on other forums than ILJ: Most of what I see on ILJ are posts where people keep in touch, say Happy Birthday, etc. That's fine, but kind of ignores the spiritual struggles and victories that occur on a regular basis for those who are serious about a relationship with Christ. The only area people can ask questions is one where only moderators can respond, thereby making the moderator the official voice of God as though no one else here has the maturity, experience and calling to help.


Wow, Every day is a spiritual struggle and it includes "Happy birthday" sometimes..especially if you are 40 or over...:innocent:
Sometimes that can be a real struggle...
and quell surprise..I have a serious relationship with Christ... believe me....:smash:


If the purpose of ILJ is a place where people can come and chill, that's one thing, but if people want to talk about more substantive things, like the recent fall of the Lakeland Revival and how it affects those who believed it was a move of God, there's not much room here for that.

I have no desire to either condone or condemn the Lakeland revival..
Many who are in high places fall..common flaw in man..
and many were truly touched and changed by this revival in spite of the flaws of those who were leading..
I will let God judge that..remember the Scripture ..

Php 1:15 Some indeed even preach Christ because of envy and strife, and some also of good will.
Php 1:16 Those, indeed, preach Christ out of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds.
Php 1:17 But these others preach in love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel.
Php 1:18 What then? Nevertheless, in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached. And I rejoice in this. Yet, also I will rejoice.

So I will with Paul, rejoice that Christ was preached ... my.. :twocents:


Opening the forum to debate and discussion is risky; but it's not so much a maturity issue as a trusting one. Do we want to pretend, or do we want to be honest and transparent? I believe we're taught in church to be disingenuine - that we must appear to meet the standards of an institution: what to wear to church, do we tithe, do we serve, do we attend faithfully, etc. Jesus didn't place expectations upon people, He met them where they were. Controversy didn't bother Him, He was not threatened by religious people, He wasn't too good to spend time with the unrighteous people. My point is, are we here to serve a forum, or are we here to share our relationship with Christ - wherever on our spiritual journeys that might find us?


I think the time for milk is past; bring on the meat.

I hate debate..I have always hated debate..I will always hate debate...:argue:
no pretense of wanting to debate with you or anyone else..
want to talk?? ..I will gladly talk to you about Jesus... :shepherd:
I am the total opposite of you... but we do have God as our Father so that makes us brethren... :)
and if that is immature then so be it, I will just drink milk....

Can you make that chocolate.... I love chocolate...:coffee:

Ann
08-27-08, 12:08 PM
Ann's :twocents:about Lakeland - It was a severe reminder to me how much we, the body of Christ, need to pray for those in any leadership position and how much I at least had failed to do that. Zechariah 13 speaks of the shepherd being smitten (attacked) and the sheep scattered. We need to realize our responsibilities in our own local expressions of the body of Christ and to the body of christ in a broader sense. Would things have been different in this case if more of us had prayed instead of being passive spectators or not even that involved? I don't know; but I do know specific instances where prayer has made a real difference and it is pretty obvious that when anyone sort of sticks up above others or is in the spotlight they are going to be a target even in snowball fights never mind spiritual warfare. So now we need to pray for those who may have been focused on that leadership and not on the Lord that their focus be adjusted and their wounded hearts come to Jesus christ for furtehr healing and for those who stand and sneer and say I knew it couldn't be real that they not throw out truth and power of the Lord in their focusing on human frailty and for the leaders there too that they themselves be helped and healed.

larry9179
08-27-08, 01:49 PM
I'm less concerned about the pastor's immorality than I am with some of the teaching that went on at the Lakeland Revival. It's been reported that Todd Bentley heard from and talked to an angel named "Emma"; and whenever he would get up and say, "I heard from Emma last night and she said....", that the crowd would go nuts. Most of the people who flocked to Lakeland were young people. It would be a tragedy if they thought that they had been misled by someone who claims to know Jesus.

As far as the pastor is concerned, I hope that the leaders providing oversight of that ministry will get him the help he needs and will gently and mercifully restore him to fellowship. So many people are leaving the church today because they feel like the church turned its back on them. Dealing with sin among our brethen is a very uncomfortable position to be put into; and there is a tendency to adopt a zero tolerance position when a brother or sister's sins are found out. If God applied our standards to fellow Christians, none of us would make it to Heaven.

As far as debates are concerned, politicians have given the term 'debate' a bad rap. Debates can function as when iron sharpens iron, and they may help a person come to grips with what they actually believe. Debates can be done in a respectful manner; if Christians can't debate respectfully, who can?

Ann
08-28-08, 04:57 AM
It would be a tragedy if they thought that they had been misled by someone who claims to know Jesus.

major amen

Re debate, I agree with that, Larry, but it's not my call. One of my favorite times in the Lord was when Charles and I belonged to a group that used to study together on Thurs. nights and many of those were very intense debates. Probably one of the reasons we were able to be so intense was that we all knew each others hearts, tragedies and triumphs and while no one ever particularly thought about it as such no one ever hit below the belt or got into condemnation of the person with whom they disagreed. The most vicious thing done was making the other person snort or crack up wth a mouthful of tea.

Charles
08-30-08, 02:28 AM
I remember those. They were a lot of fun and I miss them.