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Susan
02-09-08, 04:04 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on why Obama Barak is such a popular candidate for the presidency?

tann
02-09-08, 05:21 PM
I do but you won't like it...

I don't like it..

:no:

Breni Sue
02-09-08, 06:09 PM
I personally have no problem with the guy at all. I think he's a great candidate and would do an awesome job, despite efforts by conservatives to discredit him by claiming he's actually a Muslim - which he's not, and IMO is a poor effort to discredit him anyway. A person's religion should have no bearing on how they run a country. Another is that his mother is an atheist, which she's not and it shouldn't matter even if she was. I could go on, my IMO most of the accusations are totally unfounded.

He has some pretty good ideas on the issues that really matter in this country - health care, the economy, the deal in Iraq. I know some don't like him because of his stance on abortion. But I think that instead of working to make abortion illegal, we should work more aggressively on educating people and counseling moms-to-be so that the number of unwanted pregnancies is reduced in the 1st place - thus reducing and hopefully one day eliminating the need for abortions all together. (I'm pro-life BTW, but that's another topic all together....)

*ahem* Sorry, kinda went on a ramble there, LOL. But yeah, I think Obama would do this country a lot of good if elected.

Flannel Avenger
02-09-08, 08:08 PM
Because people value security more than liberty. They are looking for the government to come through and take care of them. Of course, they don't realize that the inevitable result is totalitarianism.

I'm going to vote for Ron Paul. He's the only candidate still running that actually cares about responsible government.

tann
02-10-08, 09:34 AM
You will find this link to where the candidates stand on key issues...

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=5386

Obama is the most liberal liberal democrat...
He is putty in the hands of folks like the Kennedy's..
God help us if this man gets the nomination..


Ron Paul would turn the Nation of Israel over to be destroyed by Iran in a heartbeat.. He has no care for anyone outside the U.S. ...
Let the rest of the world destroy its self we should not care..
He does not realize if the rest of the world destroys itself it will come this way when it is out of food for destruction...


I do not want to vote for McCain because he is too liberal..
but if he gets the nomination I may have to..

NOT a good time for the people of the U.S.A....
Perhaps judgment is coming for our turning away from Him and it is a whole lot closer than we think it is...

Pray Pray Pray.....

2Ch 7:14 if My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Ann
02-10-08, 10:09 AM
Some years back now I was in Valdosta for a funeral and as I lay across the bed praying the Lord spoke to me and said that He would give this country the leaders it deserved. That did not sound like a blessing. I prayed for mercy but it was as if I was praying to a solid granite wall. He had decided. We as a nation corporately and individually have had many opportunities since to repent and turn to God, to be cleansed and come into His mecy. Individually some ppl, have certainly done that but I have no sense that this has happened as a nation or as a strong trend among God's people here.

I think for some Obama represents an idealism perhaps a desire to change from what they see as "good old boy establishment politics" but the real changes for anything positive have to happen in our hearts before they happen governmentally. It is in my signature but I think it needs to be said again loud and clear not just as a routine thing bt as something we must do if we want to preserve any real freedom and any real blessing in America "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 Will we? Will you? and sadly I need to ask myself will I really continually as a lifestyle.

Breni Sue
02-10-08, 02:09 PM
Out of the republicans, I'd have to say that I like McCain the most. If he goes up againt Obama, it will be a tough decision for me because I think they're both pretty darned good.

And there's nothing wrong with being a liberal. My grandparents were liberals.

Walker
02-10-08, 02:12 PM
my opinion is this, why is it so bad to want a christian in the white house? that's why I vote, I vote for the canadait that best will serve Christ. I think Christ should be the center of all things if you want sucsess. Without Christ this country this united states of america will just get worse. The bible Gods word makes that plain and clear for all of us. thats why im voting for mike huckalbe and im not asshamed of me wanting Jesus in the white house to take charge.

Paulo
02-10-08, 03:31 PM
That makes a lot of sense.

Flannel Avenger
02-10-08, 03:35 PM
1) Israel does not need the United States to defend them. It is the United States trying to ram peace deals down their throats that causes more problems than answers. The US insisted on Palestinian Elections, and now Hamas runs the place. Ron Paul would also cut off subsidies to the Arab states that aren't too fond of Israel as well. If we quit subsidizing terrorists maybe they'd have to make peace.

2) It is not the place of the United States to be the worlds policeman. We can only bring peace to the world if we establish a worldwide dictatorship. Or, we can stay here and offer our hand in friendship to all nations that share our values - which will eventually bring peace to the world - but a peace brought about by people who want peace. You cannot impose peace on the world.

3) The word liberal has changed so much in the past 100 years that it has pretty much become meaningless. My worldview could be correctly described as liberal if you use the definition in place when the United States came into being as a country. Today, it is probably more accurate to say "Classical Liberal", "Libertarian"* or "Right Wing Nut". The Republican party of today has more in common with the Democratic party of 50 years ago than the modern Democratic party has in common with Democrats of 50 years ago.

4) All of the candidates for the Presidency profess some denomination of the Christian faith. As we do not know their hearts - we cannot say that they are "not Christians" unless they say one thing, do another, or give a definition of Christianity that does not line up with what Christianity really is. (The broadest, most inclusive definition of Christianity is probably the Nicene Creed or the Apostles creed - if your beliefs don't line up with that, then it's hard to call yourself a Christian - but that is another topic all to itself.)

*which is not to suggest that I agree with the totality of the platform of the Libertarian Party, I oppose Abortion, Open Borders, and Free Trade with countries that do no have comparable environmental and worker safety laws.

Breni Sue
02-10-08, 08:55 PM
Walker, I don't think too many people have a problem with having a Christian in the White House. But at the same time, I don't think it would be so catastrophic if a non-Christian took office. I would vote for a non-Christian if I felt they would make a good president. Religion and politics should not mix. I vote based on the issues - to me the candidate's religious beliefs aren't a determining factor as to whether they're qualified for the job.

Flannel Avenger
02-10-08, 09:08 PM
A candidates religious beliefs can give you valuable insight into their moral system. For example, one would have a legitimate concern of a hard core Muslim wanting his lawmaking to emulate Sharia law.

To choose a President solely on his religous affiliation is foolish (after all, even Hitler claimed to be a Christian when he was running for office - but from information obtained after he was in power we know he was lying and actually loathed Christianity). However, to say that "this piece of information I have about the prospective leader of the free world is off limits" because it's not PC to scrutinize somebody's religion is equally foolish.

Breni Sue
02-10-08, 09:21 PM
For example, one would have a legitimate concern of a hard core Muslim wanting his lawmaking to emulate Sharia law.
Agreed. But that's why we have the 1st Amendment - to prevent the government from imposing religious law onto our county.

Flannel Avenger
02-10-08, 09:58 PM
Yes, but it gives you a clue about what a person considers moral. For example, I might consider it immoral to murder somebody because the Bible says it's a sin. An atheist might come to the same conclusion because a society where murder is ok is probably not one that is going to effectively function for extended periods of time. In this instance, the same conclusion from different methods, but those differing methods can yield differing results on differing issues.

For example, take Mike Huckabee. From the way he talks about Christianity, I'm pretty sure that he's the kind of guy who thinks that it's ok to try to use the government to fullfill biblical mandates to help the poor, and would advance a lot of the tenets of "Social Justice" - as preached by the more liberal churches - on us. Mike Huckabee's religious prounouncements tell me a lot - and they scare me.

And in this day and time, you cannot count on the Bill of Rights to protect you. Take for example George Bush's faith based initiative... it is a complete and total violation of the spirit of the first amendment (and the tenth), even if it doesn't technically violate the first amendment because it's not a government establishment of religion.

Walker
02-10-08, 10:46 PM
then i guess call me a fool for standing up for what I Believe in, cause I am a fool for Jesus cause I don't vote for the outside of the candidate but what's on the inside and the light of Jesus Christ. And IM not talking about religion IM talking about Christ and Jesus Christ is not religion but a relationship. If we don't vote for Christ in the white house might as well vote for the anti Christ the Devil himself. Yes, I know he's coming but doesn't mean I have to vote for him when he comes. true we don't know who he's, but we don't know who he isn't either I just wouldn't want to make that mistake.

BTW if there for abortion I would say makes it pretty clear there not Christians, least not following Christ the way they should, cause God makes it clear that's sin and murder. I don't care what topic or the topic should go cause I stand up with Christ and the truth that sets me free. If I cant vote for that then might as well not vote. Cause I say again without Christ there's nothing but ruins like soddamin and gamora how ever you spell it. Where Christ goes is where I go, who Christ votes for is who I vote for. Jesus will be King of all so might as well get use to it in the white House cause Jesus is coming to take His Thrown.

Flannel Avenger
02-10-08, 11:26 PM
If they are for abortion then I would agree, they're probably not right with God.

But just because somebody says all the right things doesn't make them the right person for the job. Evil people will lie and manipulate to get what they want. We should be gentle as lambs and cunning as serpents.

To vote for Huckabee based solely on his profession of faith is not a good idea. Being a good person, even being right all the time, doesn't necessarily mean that you're the right person for the job. And I think that Huckabee's record in Arkansas shows that his thinking is dangerously wrong in some areas.

I like Huckabee, I think he's a good guy. I don't think he's got what it takes to lead the country.

Ann
02-11-08, 07:07 AM
Thank you each for helping prove we can have discussion and disagreement here without becoming disagreeable. You have blessed my day.

Walker
02-11-08, 10:49 AM
so i guess ur all saying Yes Jesus ur the only way, truth and the life, just not in poltics. i dont know about you but i find that to be hypacritcal. as Jesus calls us to follow him all the time not just some of the time or when we want too. That means even in poltics. I shose to follow Christ all the time why I am voting on faith alone cause I trust Christ alone.

BTW, did you know Mike dont do attack adds, was going do one against romey, but deside at the last minut to pull it back, and said it wasnt him.

That alone told me His faith in Christ was real. That's when I deside he was the one for me. cause im sick of all the attack lying ads. not just for presdent but for all of poltics. because it goes against the bible verse where it says not too put your fellow brother down.

we either follow all of Gods word as truth or none of it.

Breni Sue
02-11-08, 11:44 AM
One of the greatest things about this country is that we have the freedom to believe and practice whatever religion we want. No one is forced to abide by any religions laws. This is why I don't believe that religion belongs in politics. (and yes Walker, Christianity is by definition, a religion). That's not to say that I don't think politicians should be allowed to say a prayer before a congressional meeting. Or that they cannot use their faith as a guide in order to make important decisions. I just wanna make that clear. But ultimately, I feel it's dangerous to force everyone to abide by a law just because a particular religion says it's wrong. To take off of Flannel's earlier example, if a Muslim came into office and tried to impose a law that no woman can be allowed outside without a man who is not her relative or husband, and that she must be completely covered up, I would be very concerned and even scared. We all would. On the same token, if a Christian took office and tried to impose a law making divorce illegal, I would be equally concerned. (divorce is already outlawed in some countries due to the influence of the Catholic Church). This is why we live under a democracy and not a theocracy. And this is what I mean about mixing religion with politics.

Furthermore, just because a person claims to be a moral, God-fearing Christian doesn't necessarily make them a good candidate for president. Or good for any job, for that matter. Do I think Huckabee is a decent, down-to-earth man? Of course. Do I think he's the right guy for president? No, not so much.

Walker
02-11-08, 12:17 PM
and some wonder why i dont bother in other threads. i think i will stick to my poems for now on. i guess the word of God doesnt count for much anymore only when we want to use it i guess or kick it out. good day this thread is making me too upset and causing me too much pain.

Walker
02-11-08, 01:07 PM
no wonder america is falling apart when the people of america built the white house upon sand instead of upon the Rock. one day Jesus will be King Of Kings Lord of all including the President so might as well get use to it. one day at judgment day Jesus as judge will ask why didnt you vote for me?

Matthew 7:24-29
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

Paulo
02-11-08, 01:24 PM
what else makes you think Huckabee's the man for the job Walker? I've been following the election from here in Europe and I've been impressed with the little I've heard of him, I get more of an impression of sincerity at least, but I don't know much about him. But certainly I agree someone who was actually a pastor (I believe that's correct?) and knows the Word in such depth would be half-way, based on that, to making a good leader.

Having said that, I'm impressed with all that McCain's been through in the past and still held on to his ideals, while Obama seems to have a natural charisma which draws people to him. He just seems very likeable.

Breni Sue
02-11-08, 01:34 PM
Walker, I think you are missing my point completely. I just feel we should consider all the issues, instead of choosing a candidate just because he is more vocal about his faith than anyone else. I think the minister of my dad's church is a good Christian, doesn't mean he'd make a good president.

As a sidenote - who is to say who Jesus would vote for? I don't feel any of us are qualified to say that with certainty.

Ann
02-11-08, 02:45 PM
Walker no one is kicking you out of anywhere. No one is saying that a person can not vote at God's leading and direction. No one is saying not to pray about who to vote for and do what you believe God directs you to do. And no one is saying not to express your political convictions.

What is being said is 1. More than one candidate is claiming to have a personal relationship with Christ. 2. That having such a relationship does not necessarily make a person qualified for a specific job. For examole I believe I am a strong Christian. I believe that if I was stranded and had an urgent reason in Christ to need to make my vehicle go the Holy Spirit could show me how to fix it. That actually hapened once and I was able to rebuild a carberator about which I knew nothing. However that does not qualify me to be an auto or aircraft mechanic. Neither does it qualify me to hold political office even if I have looked at a few who have been running for a few positions and thought that hbc (him black cat) was as likely to do a good job as they were. 3. Many people do have an issue or a couple of issues which are so vital to them that position on these alone would be a deciding factor.

iljboards is designed to welcome everyone whether or not they yet have a personal relationship with Christ and whether or not that relationship guides every decision. If we try to throw people away because they do not believe in Jesus yet we are wrong. If they are not welcome to come and be with with us they can never learn from us nor can we learn from them. Iljboards is also designed to welcome people from different parts of the spectrum of Christian beliefs. We don't exclude people because of how they were or were not baptized even though each individual member may have very strong views on this matter. We are each welcome to state our views.

I personally believe that if Jesus is LORD then He should be my guide in all decisions but as I look back over my life since I accepted Him at 7 not even counting the yrs I spent avoiding His Lordship and going my own way in my late teens and early 20's there have been choices that I made believing they were God's will that I would not make at this time with what I hope and believe is a greater understanding of His word and His will. Here's a non- political example. You know me well enough because of IM discussions if not on board threads to know that I do not believe that if someone uses medicine or doctors they are failing in their faith but I know and probably you also know people who believe that Christ alone is our healing and our health and any attempt to seek healing apart from Him is sin. Because we have talked on IM I know that you would not agree with them and would not condemn someone for going to a doctor and I think I know that you would also not condemn someone who felt that they should not seek medical assistance for their own health. (I am not speaking here of medical care being witheld from someone who is not in a position to make their own competent and informed decisionbut of a rational adult making a decision about their own health.) They just have different understandings of God's word. The same type of differences can happen in relation to political perspectives. I go to a church where there are people who sincerely believe that it is wrong to vote because that is interfering in God's choice by our human efforts. I believe that they are totally and completely wrong about that. But I can not say they are not Christians because I know that they are.

In past election years we have strongly discouraged political discussion at ilj because of the potential for people to get upset and hurt as some folks like Flan and Breni probably remember. The mods and admins discussed this earlier this year and we believe that the ppl who are participating here now can and hopefully will be able to talk with one another without stone throwing, name calling, and generally getting into a fuss that hurts feelings and does not glorify Jesus or say a lot that is complimentary about ourselves. This is a time for the forebearance that Paul wrote of in Ephesians 4:1-3 and 13 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. .... Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

1 Corinthians 13 would be a good thing to read. It tells of God's love for us and in us and also says in verses 9 and 10 that now we know in part and speak in part but the time comes as we grow in Christ and as He grows in us "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." That which is perfect is not yet come so we will have times when we disagree here and disagree passionately and that is OK as long as we can make an effort to do that and still walk in love towards those with whom we disagree. That's a tough assignment but it is a part of learning to walk in Jesus. It's a part I sometimes have a lot of trouble living out but still a very important part.

Walker
02-11-08, 03:25 PM
i think most are miss understanding me completetly. when my issue is we're not trusting Jesus enough in all of this. and something thinking im a fool for voting on faith alone. when faith in Christ is what Leads us. and its Jesus Christ who I want leading this country. and im voting for Hucklbe because I like His walk with Christ the best and thats the only reason I need, im trusting Christ on the rest and thats all I need to be doing. now excuse me as my abdomain pain is coming back.

btw i too like john mcain

Flannel Avenger
02-11-08, 11:22 PM
I hear you loud and clear. I'm not going to vote for somebody that I think does not share my convictions on right and wrong, and I wouldn't expect for anybody else to either.

I am going to go to the North Carolina primary on May 6th and vote for Ron Paul not only because he professes to be a Christian, but because he honors the sanctity of life, and he believes that the government has no business mandating all sorts of things on us. He believes in the sovereignty of the United States of America and will not relinquish it for any price.

I know he doesn't stand much chance of winning, but I cannot think of anybody better suited to lead this country than a man whose principles have not wavered in all his years of elected office. A man who birthed babies for free for women who couldn't pay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul#Military_service_and_medical_career).

When I see Ron Paul, I see a man who may not be the most charming, or articulate, but I see a man who has genuinely tried to live his life by the principles of which he believes and has been willing to be mocked for them.

Breni Sue
02-12-08, 12:21 AM
As far as I know, all the candidates have expressed Christian beliefs. It's just that some have been more vocal about it than others. But it doesn't necessarily mean they are more of a Christian or better suited to lead our country. Everyone is certainly entitled to vote for whoever they choose and I'm not criticising anyone for their choice, but I think that to endorse a candidate exclusively because of their religious beliefs, may not be the most wise thing to do. IMO it is the same as endorsing Hillary just because she's a woman, or Obama just because he's black. I want to know where they stand on the issues that are important to me. Which, as a mother, are health care, education, crime, and the environment. I want my son - as well as everyone else's children - to have access to quality health care, receive a decent education, and grow up in a safe neighborhood that hopefully will not be contaminated with pollutants when he's an adult. I care about the war in Iraq as well, and hope that whoever is elected will find a way to resolve the issue over there and bring our troops home.

With all that said, McCain is about the only republican candidate I like. But I will probably only vote for him if Obama doesn't get the democratic nomination.

Flannel Avenger
02-12-08, 07:16 PM
I think that to endorse a candidate exclusively because of their religious beliefs, may not be the most wise thing to do. IMO it is the same as endorsing Hillary just because she's a woman, or Obama just because he's black.

I agree.

tann
02-12-08, 07:47 PM
If a candidate does not stand for and promote Judea-Christian values I will not vote....
We deserve what we get if we vote otherwise...



Col 3:17 And everything, whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.

Don Disney
02-12-08, 08:19 PM
For what it is worth here are my :twocents:. First off God is Sovereign, He is in control and I firmly believe that no one will be elected that He did not put in place for His Glory. I know this is not a popular stance, because we has humans like to believe we have control. However, in light of:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
(Rom 13:1 ESV emphasis added)

If you read the following verse in context you'll find that God says this to Moses about Pharaoh in between the plaques that He was sending against Egypt.
But for this purpose I have raised you up, to show you my power, so that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.
(Exo 9:16 ESV)