Adhd

[Michele]

I have heard a lot of debate lately on whether ADHD and ADD are actually clinically diagnosed diseases needing medication or whether they are just some made up excuses for the bad behavior of children in which doctors and prescription companies profit. Thoughts? :hmm:

[Anne]

That's an interesting Q Michele.

Personally, I think ADHD is way over 'diagnosed'.

I homeschool my kid's and have learned some about different learning styles. Most of the kid's that are diagnosed with ADHD have a hard time in typical school settings. They are full of energy and have a really hard time just sitting hearing lectures. They are considered the 'problem' kids. Or the 'trouble makers'. Most of these kid's that are labled like that just have different learning styles and are bored!

I think it is mostly boys who are diagnosed ADHD. Little boys who have a hard time sitting still. They are the ones who are considered disruptive or having bad behavior. So, instead of having an education tailored to how they learn best, they are drugged to fit into how the schools teach best. I think it is sad because they are just being little boys!

For instance...my son, who is now 10 has a hard time sitting for prolonged amounts of time. He can sit for about 1/2 - 3/4 of an hour and be productive. Anything past that and he is fidgeting, zoning out, farting around and just generally getting nothing done. If I make sure he has a good 10-15 minute break every so often where he does something physical he can get back to work and be productive again.

I bet that if public schools geared classes to different learning styles instead of remedial, gifted etc. kids would do alot better and there would be alot less kid's in remedial classes. The kid's who are considered remedial are probably the ones who have a learning style that makes it hard for them to learn in a typical classroom setting.

Anyway, that's my take on it. LOL

What are your thoughts?

[bigkat]

This is what my prof told us in my 'Sociology of Deviance' class in college. Ritalin is a stimulant. But when they gave it to certain kids, it calmed them down instead of making them more excited. Which is the opposite of what a stimulant is supposed to do. So they called it a disorder.

[Michele]

I think your idea about different learning styles would be the best, but some teachers are too lazy (and many dont have enough time ;) ) to accomodate for these kinds of problems. I heard recently that some of the prescription companies that make ritalin and other meds for ADHD and ADD support some pretty powerful groups in Congress that continue to promote the diagnosis of these "diseases" and the prescription of drugs.

I have personally known two people who were diagnosed and given ritalin. One was completely out of control and finally could function on ritalin. The other was so sedated on ritalin that it was pitiful. He couldnt even focus. Thankfully, he was taken off. So this would lead me to believe that ADHD and ADD are real but are blown way out of proportion in cases. So I dont really know...:hmm:

[Candice]

My best friend and myself are both ADHD... she's been diagnossed I have not(as some of you know doctors aren't my forte) but we've both leared how to cope and be productive and use our hyperness constructivly. Some people can control it but there are some people that medicines actually help... but I do agree that it is way out of hand... it seems now a days that any child with any slight problems is drugged into some kind of zombie. it's rediculous.

[Anne]

My husband was hyper active when he was little.

His mom would put coffee in his bottles..........LOLOL She swore that it helped settle him down. Maybe it did since stimulants have the opposite effect on people who are hyper active.

Of course, that was like 30 years ago. I'm sure if a mom did that now days she'd be jailed for child abuse. LOL

[UberHouseWife]

I was diagnosed ADHD as a child, but my parents refused to medicate me. Instead, they moved me to private school, then eventually to home-schooling. It benefitted me a lot! I agree that it is WAY over diagnosed and definitely over-medicated! I have already taken all the classes to be certified in Washington State to homeschool, so I will be homeschooling my kids... :)

[Multimom]

I used to hold the "made up" philosophy until I understood the true nature of the imbalance.

I was an ADHD kid and no one knew it. Fortunately I learned coping mechanisms that allowed me to do well in school.

My son is an ADHD kid and he "settled" out of the hyperactive phase and is just "fidigity" now.

He has a horrible time focusing on anything that requires sustained mental effort and NO he doesn't medicate.

But here's a wonderful example of how Aderal helped.

Case: JD - 4th grade - private school student: Not overly active, but completely unable to focus. Grades were failing but his IQ is well over 100.

Enter Aderal: Within 3 weeks this boy went from failing (for 2 - 6 weeks) to passing and then within the next grading period to A/B honor role.

ADHD is not about "active little boys who just can't sit still". It's about real kids with real problems finding a way to cope.

[Nicole]

I think it's real - I also think it's highly overdiagnosed and an excuse or cop-out for many people.

[TVChick]

My son has ADD. He is not "hyper" really, but he isn't able to focus his attn easily.

ADD/ADHD people often process information more slowly than "normal" people.

For instance, in school, the teacher may be speaking her 3rd sentence of instruction, but my son's still interpretting the 1st sentence. There are ways to test to determine if a person is interpretting visual and auditory cues more slowly than the "normal" person.

My son tested slow on both, and MUCH slower auditorily.
What the Dr did was give us another appt later and had him take 1 ritalin pill and retested him (at about the same time of day n all) and compared the results. The medication brought his reaction to the cues to an almost "normal" level.

Is it over-diagnosed? Quite probably.
Is it over-medicated? Again, probably.
Is it under-medicated? Probably, because I think many people/parents don't accept the possiblity, in part due to the stigma attached to *gasp* "ritalin."

These some of the things I know:
I worked w/my son's Dr for 2.5 (or 3.5?) years, and I trust him.
His Dr prefers NOT to medicate kids when in doubt.
The meds have helped him.

[arielgirl]

My husband is ADD. I can honestly tell you that his is not made up. He wasnt diagnosed until a little before I met him. His mother made him go to a psychiatrist and take these really long tests because she had read some of the signs and realized that he had been like that as a child. The doctor prescribed Paxil and he was taking it for a little while, but stopped taking it. Mostly because he cannot remember to take it and just plain refused to.

I can tell you that it really is very frustrating. He gets distracted if I am trying to talk to him when the tv is on. I have to turn it off or else he will keep looking at it. He procrastinates about everything, and I mean everything. If I had a dime for every time I have heard, "I'll do it tomorrow." or "I'll do it later" I'd be a rich woman. It's not laziness. It's not an excuse for him to be lazy. He is not a lazy person. He gets so mad at himself for forgetting things, or putting things off. He calls it his "stupid diease", or his "brain disease" and even though I know he's joking, I also know that he's not.

As for being hyper, it's one little thing like something funny on tv, or something funny he said that just builds until he is out of control. A lot of times when he is getting hyper he'll stop and say, "I feel really hyper. I can't stop being hyper." I get very frustrated and upset because it really is very annoying. I know that sounds horrible, and I know it's not his fault. I have no idea what will help if meds do nothing. Dont get the wrong idea and think he is crazy all the time, its just certain things set him off.

Is this kind of think hereditary on some level, because I am concerned that if I have a child he/she will also be ADD.

~Amy

[Anne]

Amy,

I have a cousin who is exactly like your husband. Except probably worse! LOL They learned when he was young that there were certain foods that would 'set him off'. Like red food coloring for instance. He just couldn't tolerate it at all.

Maybe if you pay attention to what he eats it would indicate if he has a food allergy. :confused:

Just a thought anyway...

God Bless

[arielgirl]

Thanks for the suggestion Anne. ALthough it seems to me that whether he is eating healthy or horribly its all the same. I will look into it though.

~Amy

[Azelma]

As a teacher, I've been to countless SST meetings where parents try to get their children diagnosed as ADD or ADHD. Sometimes the kid really has it, but most of the time it's bunk. I mean, my students have coca-cola for breakfast, cheetos for snack, mountain dew for lunch maybe with some pizza or (more likely) chips and cookies, and then go home to some sort of highly processed dinner like McDonald's or Kraft Mac & Cheese. It doesn't take a doctor to figure out why they're hyperactive.

For kids who really have ADD/ADHD, there are teaching methods that help them succeed and function in the classroom. For those hopped up on sugar and over-processed junk, there's really nothing to be done. :(

[UberHouseWife]

There have been scientific studies conducted that proved that sugar has no hyperactivating properties. But caffeine I agree about. :)

[Multimom]

Studies show that really poor diets don't effect "normal" children by producing "ADHD behaviors".

Normal kids don't exhibit ADHD behaviors because of junk food diets.

However, the ADHD kid will struggle with many issues and will be helped by many avenues one of which is a modification of diet.

Sugar isn't the culprit. It requires careful modification of all foods and in many cases actual allergic reactions are noted to trigger foods.

An ADHD kid shouldn't consume large amounts of caffiene because of the possible results of intereferring with their medication, it's not necessarily a trigger for every ADHD child.

[InvisaChick]

I agree that ADHD is over use/over diagnosed. Sometimes I think that it's the teacher not wanting to deal with a childs needs (not to offend everyone), or sometimes it may be the truth.

I have 2 examples.

1. My friend's daughter had lots of attention from her parents growing up, so when she got to school, she didn't know what to do. She wanted to hang out with the adult in the class, so sometimes she didn't do her work. Because of the extra attention that the student needed, the teacher asked the parent to take the child to the doctor to get ritalin as the child was hyper active. Her mother didn't think this was quite right, but took the daughter anyway. The doctor refused to give the medication as 'There was no way that child was attention deficit!' Finally, the student moved classes and things are better.


2. My best friends little brother. Really is ADD, and is on ritalin for it.



I don't think it's a teachers place to say what the child needs or doesn't need.



(What gets me really mad is that for every letter of a disorder here in Indiana, they give the school corps (or used to give the school corps) 100 dollars. So for ADHD that's 400 bucks! I'm sorry but that's incentive to say someone has a disorder.)

[Angeleyes]

My son has add but I did not feel the meds were helping him stay on track at school. I did not see any differents he is now 23 and dose not need anything and dose a great job at work. I do think they just pop pills into kids now just so the parents and teachers don't have to put up with them. I have all so seen kids who need the meds so they can sit still and do their work. (I have worked in the schools) I feel if the teachers had some rights given back to them they could handle some of the child but that's just me.

[UberHouseWife]

It's kind of funny. This issue of learning disabilities, mis-diagnosing, & lack of proper attention are some of the main reasons I will be homeschooling my kids.

If my son needs to have a break every 20 minutes in order to focus on his lessons, I can hand-taylor his school day to accomodate that. If my next child needs extra help in Math, but excells in Reading & Writing we can focus on Math extra long & he/she can skip ahead a little in the other things.

I also love the prospect of learning about the things they are interested in. I know that when I was young, I was so busy learning what the teacher had planned that it sometimes squelched my desires to find out more about other things. If my kids are interested in Marine Biology we can spend a week gathering info from the encyclopedia, watching specials about ocean life on The Discovery Channel, visiting the library, & taking a field trip to the local aquarium!!

Sorry for the rant, but the possibilities are endless & I get very excited about it! :D

[Azelma]

I think I was misunderstood. Poor diet does not cause ADD/ADHD or anything that looks like it. What it does do is make the people act all crazy-like -- first hyper, then lethargic. They can't focus (generally those with ADD/ADHD focus on everything) and the parents come in saying that their child needs accomodations for ADD/ADHD. It's a mistake -- the behavior is disruptive, but not the same as the behavior from an ADD/ADHD child.


My ADHD students are unable to control themselves -- they apologize for their behavior after class, they really do try to focus... My just plain hyper kids, are, well, just plain hyper. I love them all. I am more prepared to help some than others, though.

UberHouseWife, I would like to see these studies. A healthy diet aids in concentration -- that's why before testing the districts become super-adamant about nutrition.

[TVChick]

Originally posted by InvisaChick
What gets me really mad is that for every letter of a disorder here in Indiana, they give the school corps (or used to give the school corps) 100 dollars. So for ADHD that's 400 bucks! I'm sorry but that's incentive to say someone has a disorder.You've got to be joking. That would mean an ADD kid would be 100 bucks less?
Please...

Show me something official that says this.
There is no logic to it *at all.* Where would the money even come from?? It's just crazy.... (no pun intended. ;))

*edited to add*
Because ADHD isn't the name of the disorder anyway. It's "Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder" or something with TONS of letters like that...
That would cost/benefit someone THOUSANDS per kid!
*/edit*

[Azelma]

Originally posted by TVChick
[B]
Show me something official that says this.
There is no logic to it *at all.* Where would the money even come from?? It's just crazy.... (no pun intended. ;))
B]

If you're surprised with the lack of logic as to how money is spent in the schools... well, you just must not hear about it as frequently as I do. I am beyond shock. :rolleyes:

And yes, the federal government and most state governments provide funds for every child with an IEP (individualized education plan -- it's what a child gets after being diagnosed with any sort of disorder that can affect his or her education). Of course, the federal government only coughs up about 40% of what it says it will, leaving the states and individual districts to take up the slack. It's a federal law that requires the funds be there, yet the federal government doesn't hold its end of the bargain. Fun.

Edited to add:
Umm... what's all this about letters, though? Missed that the first skim through... oh my. And I said I was beyond shock. :p Unless, of course, by letter they mean record. In which case, it makes sense. :)

[Multimom]

I don't think it's a teachers place to say what the child needs or doesn't need.

Thats why in the state of Texas we don't allow teachers to make medical recommendations. Unfortunately that also leads to alot of misunderstanding about these types of learning style.

Teachers are in alot of cases completely ignorant about ADHD which often results in embarrassment or abuse of the child with the disorder.

A kid who has ADHD is so sensitive to his surroundings that he is unable to block out extranious stimuli which is what results in the excessive distractibility.

Now school nutrition is a laughable joke.

In 6 weeks of menus there was not one green vegetable on any menu at our school. All the veggies were the starchy type which is the same as eating multiple slices of bread within the same meal.

Canned fruit in "heavy syrup" is the norm for any type of fruit offered to the kids. Most vegetables are canned and processed to death and have little or no nutritional value because they have been cooked to death.

And now the kids can actually choose what parts of the meal they want to take on their plates. If a kid comes through the line and doesn't like lunch, he can take just the roll, dessert and milk and walk away. There's definately a need for nutrition in our schools, but most of the districts are doing a pretty pitiful job in meeting the nutritional requirements of these kids.

Does anyone else remember when Regan tried to get Ketchup (used to be spelled Catsup, what happened to that one???) declared a vegetable so that it could be included as part of a "vegetable" with a meal. And lets face it when "french fries" are listed as that days vegetable, we are faring no better than our local McDonalds when it comes to nutrition. :soapbox: :right: :right:


Now back to the original topic.:biggrin:

[TVChick]

Originally posted by Azelma
the federal government and most state governments provide funds for every child with an IEP (individualized education plan -- it's what a child gets after being diagnosed with any sort of disorder that can affect his or her education). But not every child w/a disorder gets an IEP.
And who has to diagnose the kid?
I don't know how each state does it, but I would doubt a child must be "diagnosed" w/something to get an IEP.

Unless, of course, by letter they mean record. In which case, it makes sense. :)

Yes, that would make much more sense.

[Azelma]

Originally posted by TVChick
But not every child w/a disorder gets an IEP.
And who has to diagnose the kid?
I don't know how each state does it, but I would doubt a child must be "diagnosed" w/something to get an IEP.


IEPs are national requirements, and if a child has a disorder that interferes with his or her education he or she must have an IEP. It's the law. If the disorder does not affect his or her education, then there's no need for an IEP, of course. In the case of ADHD, it generally requires an IEP. IEPs are only for children with some sort of medical or psychological impediment to their education, so, yes, they must be diagnosed with something in order to get an IEP. (An SST meeting can be called for any child, and a plan may very well be set up for that child, but it will not be called an IEP, nor will it have the same sort of legal weight as an IEP).

A psychologist or doctor must diagnose the child. Teachers, parents, administrators, counselors, etc... can only suggest that a child be tested.

It's amazing how much I retained from all those credentialing courses! :)

[TVChick]

Originally posted by Azelma
IEPs are national requirements, and if a child has a disorder that interferes with his or her education he or she must have an IEP. It's the law. If the disorder does not affect his or her education, then there's no need for an IEP, of course. In the case of ADHD, it generally requires an IEP.Then I assume that if a teacher suggests a child may have a problem (be that ADHD, depression, or whatever) and the parent gets the child help (be it medication or therapy alone) which gets the child to a "functional" level, no IEP is made. Is that right?

[Azelma]

Originally posted by TVChick
Then I assume that if a teacher suggests a child may have a problem (be that ADHD, depression, or whatever) and the parent gets the child help (be it medication or therapy alone) which gets the child to a "functional" level, no IEP is made. Is that right?

Sounds right to me. Basically, if the problem does not get in the way of the child's education, no IEP is needed.

[arielgirl]

Canned fruit in "heavy syrup" is the norm for any type of fruit offered to the kids. Most vegetables are canned and processed to death and have little or no nutritional value because they have been cooked to death.


I agree Multimom. I teach a toddler class at a preschool, and everyday it is some canned fruit and canned green beans, peas, corn..etc. Every once in awhile (like maybe once a month), the kids will get a fresh vegetable such as carrots, or fresh fruit such as bananas. One time we even had apples and watermelon...:rolleyes: At our preschool the main reason for this is because these things do not "keep" well, and are too expensive, and really they only care about the bottom line that starts with...$$$$$. :redhotmad But anyway, I can't get started on that. I just wish that fruit cocktail, canned peaches..etc. were not allowed to be considered fruit on the menu.

Anyway, just thought I'd ramble on about that...:D

~Amy

[TVChick]

Let's not forget that *almost all* fruit can be bought in "natural juice" rather than heavy (or even light) syrup.

[UberHouseWife]

TvChick- That's so true. With how tight money is I can only go shopping once every two weeks. Its not very practical for me to buy all fresh fruit, though I do buy bananas & apples fresh, but mandarin oranges, peaches, fruit cocktail, etc I buy canned in natural juices. Silas loves it!

[Multimom]

Canned fruit in natural juice is the best way to go for fruit in the can.

Now about the IEP. These are used for kids with learning disabilities.

If the condition does not require extreme modification for education then IEP's are not written.

My son has a learning disability in math and he has an IEP. He takes resource math and is in the regular classroom for everything else.

Just a tip not all resource kids are low IQ. My son's IQ is well above average and he is an A-B student in everything including his resource math.

There are no other modifications made for him in any other subject. The math disability is one that they have written an IEP for and unfortunately since he has decided to go to the private school where my husband is now the director, the school district will lose their funds for him. (What a shame.......NOT)

[Azelma]

Originally posted by Multimom

Now about the IEP. These are used for kids with learning disabilities.

Or students with any disability that affects their education. ADHD may or may not fall under this category depending on the child.


If the condition does not require extreme modification for education then IEP's are not written.

What do you mean by extreme? I've got a whole file full of modifications that I wouldn't consider "extreme." If the child requires any modification, the IEP is written. Period.


Just a tip not all resource kids are low IQ. My son's IQ is well above average and he is an A-B student in everything including his resource math.

It's always nice to remind people of this! :)

unfortunately since he has decided to go to the private school where my husband is now the director, the school district will lose their funds for him. (What a shame.......NOT)
You act as though the funds don't help the resources that helped your son :confused: At my school, at least, we receive such a little percentage of the federal funding that we're supposed to for learning disabilities and special ed, that we have students who have never even met any of the resource teachers. It's sad. :( It's not like we're rolling in the dough, here. Our central office took lots of paycuts this year just so they'd (barely) have enough teachers for the students. The cuts mean we no longer have any supplies provided for our students... Anything I want my kids to have this year comes from my pocket. I joke about the school money situation at times, but it actually is quite dire. I suppose it depends on your state and neighborhood, though.